Dr Rupy: Mark, first of all, I just want to say thank you because I think I was on your podcast many years ago, the Unconventionalist, and I'm pretty sure that was like the, if not one of the first pods I'd ever done. And like the way you just, yeah, honestly, the way you just showed up, you whacked out these microphones, you know, the camera set up was here. It was literally in this living room right here. The couch is actually where I was standing here, but I've changed it because I put a kitchen bar in here and stuff. But yeah, that was literally the first pod and that was like the first time I think pods came on my radar. I started listening to them. Yours was probably one of the first that I started listening to. And um, and since doing my own podcast, it's sort of like opened up my world to the breadth of incredible people there are out there. And I guess, you know, that's what we're going to be talking about today about how everyone has a story and there's so much we can do to connect better with other people. So yeah, I thought I'd just start with a thank you.
Mark: Well, I appreciate that. And trust me, it's an honour to be here on your podcast. And yeah, I remember it was a great conversation. I appreciate your candid honesty. And I know we had some chats offline and look, I've appreciated the friendship that we've grown over the years and and just thank you for having me.
Dr Rupy: No, no, of course, man. So let's get started. Why don't we introduce you to the audience who perhaps haven't come across your work, you know, you're slightly different to the the regular guest that we have here in the Doctor's Kitchen, but I think it's important nonetheless. And I think you've got an awesome story to tell as well. So, uh, yeah, take it away.
Mark: Yeah. So, yeah, so my name is Mark Laroust. It's it's unpronounceable because my dad's French and nobody's perfect, so don't blame me for that. But it's uh, yeah, I was born and raised in France. I think probably part of the story that's relevant is, you know, I grew up in the 80s in France and I'm a dyslexic kid. And if I'd been diagnosed back then, or if I'd been born 10 years later, I would have probably been severely medicated on ADD or some stuff like that. I was a hyperactive kid. So I struggled at school and I was bullied, which is actually an, well, not an interesting, but it's it's an unusual situation where I was bullied not by my peers, but by my teachers because I couldn't spell. I really struggled to spell and read out loud and do maths. And that didn't fit very well in like the archaic French educational system. And so I just had this voice in the back of me, which is delusional at best, but actually super helpful, which was, you're going to get through this and one day, you know, you'll live to see better days. And I was held back a year, then eventually I was kicked out of conventional school and I was just so determined. I still managed to go to university and and and had a bit of a weird random career. But the reason why I bring that up is I think from a young age, I understood what it felt to feel misunderstood and to feel like I didn't have a voice or I didn't fit in, even though I felt like this didn't feel normal, if that makes sense. Um, and and fast forward to today, it's a lot of the work that I do is I kind of wear two hats. On one side, I work with entrepreneurs and business leaders to try and impact the world with their message and their story. And on the other side, I go and work with companies who are trying to change dramatically their culture for the better, who are trying to infuse a sense of meaning, of purpose within their organisation, but more than that, a sense of belonging where people feel like they can bring their true authentic self, whatever that means, with the challenges that come with that. And I think I bridge the worlds of of being an employee and and being a leader because I've been on both sides. Um, and I try and bring a bit of compassion and a bit of humour to this often difficult topic of, you know, 86% of employees worldwide feel disengaged at work. And and I guess one of the missions that I'm on as well is to eradicate career misery in the workplace.
Dr Rupy: 86%?
Mark: Yeah, that's a Gallup study that came out and basically found that across the world, I think it was like 135 countries studied. Um, yeah, 86% of employees feel emotionally disengaged from the work they do. Um, you know, at the time of recording, there's this great resignation that we're hearing about, right, since post-COVID and it's it's something that I just feel isn't right, you know? And I've been in situations, so I've I spent my career, I spent about 10 years in the corporate world and the non-profit world. So for your listeners who might be aware, it's Movember season at the time of recording this podcast. Um, and I was country manager there for for four years and I helped raise 2.8 million euros for men's health and got 110,000 people to sign up and all that stuff. But what was amazing to see was all I had was, you know, a little backpack, a questionable moustache and a story. And that's all I had. And and I was basically asked like, go to Europe and try and launch the foundation in a few European countries. And and they used to be this joke, my nickname was Rusty at Movember. Not a lot of people know this, but my nickname was Rusty. And they used to call it the Rusty effect. And it was when I used to go into market, like I used to go and travel across Belgium, Spain, France, and Switzerland, and numbers of registrations would go up. And the only reason that happened is because I would just try and talk to anyone and everyone I could. And I would share the story of Movember and then I would link my personal story to why raising awareness about mental health and men's health was important to me. Um, and that was I think the plant, the seed that was planted around this idea of we've all got a story and and when we can connect the stories of our past to why we do what we do, it's a really powerful combination.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah. Dude, that that's incredible. And and the numbers are still like flabbergasting. I mean, we've spoken on the podcast actually, um, with a couple of people about this topic. One was Stephen McGregor, who is, um, you've probably come across his work. He's written a fantastic book very recently called The Daily Reset, and he talks about workplace well-being, workplace wellness. And I think that emotional engagement with what you do on a daily basis is super critical, uh, to your overall well-being. Um, because if you feel that disconnected to something that we spend 70 to 80% of our lives doing, it's no wonder that, you know, people lack purpose and people lack the sort of the happy. I mean, I always sort of, um, regard myself and a lot of my friends who are other entrepreneurs like yourself as lucky, not because we get to have some of the perks of, you know, running your own business, doing it on your own time, even though we probably work more than your traditional hours. But we're we're lucky and privileged because we have an understanding or an inkling of we know what we want. And we can go out and achieve that and work towards that goal. And I think a lot of people will be in corporate jobs, but other jobs as well, not really having that sort of connection with purpose. And it's I think it's a critical piece to, you know, well, the ikigai, it's the, uh, that traditional sort of idea of of purpose, connection and and and happiness.
Mark: And it's hard. 100% and it's hard. And you know, for those who love a good TEDx talk, you know, go and check it out. I gave a TEDx talk in 2017 that's done quite well. But the the the foundation of it was this idea that, you know, people think that they're going to quit their jobs and start their business and they're going to be happy. But the the figures are are horrific when you actually look, I think Dr. Freeman, uh, one of the, uh, Californian, you know, researchers that looked into the, one of the first to look at the correlation between mental health and and entrepreneurs, basically found like this staggering facts, like you're, you know, like three times more likely to have depression and all these kind of mental health issues as a result of being an entrepreneur. So why are so many people still driven to this idea, even though like 90% chance of failing, right? And and kind of what I found was it's not so much starting the business that we're looking for, it's what we think starting a business will bring us that we're we're that we're looking for. And and it's that feeling and that sense of belonging, of of working towards something that feels important, meaningful. And and what I learned through the research for my book in Glow in the Dark is that we we all have a need to feel part of an important narrative that we feel like we are part of something meaningful and special. What I find fascinating is that I would say the vast majority of us don't see how our stories are interesting. You know, I mean, you've you've come on the show and you shared your story on my podcast and I've had hundreds of other guests and I'm amazed and shocked at how many people I I'd come off and I'd be like, wow, that's like a really inspiring, powerful story. And they'd be like, really? I don't really see it that way. And I don't know if that's something that you felt, but literally again, I I I got a message from, you know, someone who's listening saying, listen to, you know, X episode of like Vanessa Bella, for example, and said that story was really meaningful and powerful. So I relay that message back to Vanessa, right? And she says, I really still struggle to see it. It's crazy. I mean, I'm humbled and grateful, but I struggle to see how how meaningful or important or valuable the story can be. So, yeah, I my heart goes out to a lot of people. And one, I just want to say one thing, I was asked the other day, I think it was a cab driver asked me, what keeps you motivated? And I said, it's it's not motivation, it's drive, which is it's kind of it's a bit of a difference. I don't know if you can relate to this. It's like motivation for me fluctuates on a day-to-day basis, you know, I can wake up feeling a bit groggy, feeling excited and then but I find that finding something that drives you can be way more powerful because then it it's about showing up even when you don't feel like it. Um, and and when it comes down to to working, I think, especially in companies and corporates, find something that drives you and and it doesn't have to be big. I think one of the big issues I see around purpose is this idea that we need to be a world-changing, you know, business-changing kind of mission. No, I think, you know, there's there's countless examples out there, which I think people, you know, Nancy Duarte is one of them. You know, she decided for a for a year and a half to to to paint 100 paintings, small paintings for all the people she was grateful for in her life. And then she did an exhibition where she showed all those paintings. It's quite emotional. You can watch like a video of it. But the point was, it's not like this world-changing thing, but it made her feel a sense of fulfillment. It gave her a sense of drive and it and it enabled her to give back to those she cared about and to show people that, you know, she was appreciative. So a bit of a bit of food for thought.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, no, that that's epic. I'm definitely going to look that up. Is that like a a video on YouTube or something where you can watch how how she Yeah, I can send you the link. Yeah, it's it's if you type in Nancy Duarte, I think it's um yeah, on I'll I'll send you the I'll send you the the link. That's amazing. But because I'm dyslexic, by the way, just so anybody's listening to this, I'm dyslexic. So I sometimes confuse names. So Nancy Duarte might be someone completely different. I might be thinking of someone else who's doing something completely different. And she might have a very similar name. So anyone listening to this, don't trust what I say, just look at the show notes because I'll be able to look at the show notes. I'll correct it in the show notes. Don't worry. But that's a really interesting point you make there about um entrepreneurs having high rates of depression and what may have motivated them to leave in the first place was a was a was a drive or a searching for happiness in other areas. Um, and and you mentioned this um this is something I hear about a lot, um, you know, being true to your authentic self. And and I think particularly, you know, in our um character limited social media platforms, it can be banded around a lot, but but I don't know if people understand the process or have the tools or are knowledgeable of the tools to try and figure what that actually means for them. And and I wonder, you know, along the arc of your career and your journey, how you've determined that, um, and and whether that's in influx for you as well, whether the shifts on a on a yearly, uh, hopefully not more regularly than yearly, but you know, on a on a sort of a on a time period basis for you, does how has that how has that journey for you?
Mark: I love that question. Yeah, the metaphor that came up is like an onion. Like layers. I think if if you think of it as a metaphor for people listening to this, think about it as a piano. I think when we're born, most of us have have have some form of privilege of having our emotional range still pretty much intact. Of of course, there are different situations where we are unfortunate and on households that don't permit those kind of emotional expressions. So I don't want to take that for granted. But imagine if, you know, overall, a medium average of us are able to have our emotional expressions being met in terms of if we're happy, we laugh. If we're sad, we cry. If we're frustrated, we let people know. If we're angry, we hit like it's a very wide range of imagine like the 80, you know, plus piano keys on a piano, we can play the full range of emotions as we're kids. And then as we grow up, we have education, we have parents, we have uh relationships, we have friendships, we have heartaches, we have school, business, work, etc, etc. And for those listening, my hands are getting smaller and smaller on the piano. And then you get used to playing on this very small range of keys, if that makes sense. So, I think one of the ideas, the concept of like, you know, being yourself, being your true authentic self, being your effortless self, all this kind of stuff, I think it's about looking at this and going, how much am I allowing myself to re-express some of that range? You know, how much am I really giving myself permission to dream, to express, to to feel, to whatever. That that's that's one aspect. The other aspect that I found personally is that and this is going to sound really strange and again, I talk about this in the book around your story, but it actually takes a lot of effort and energy to hide and to pretend and to be someone else. Now, remember that we are extremely adaptive creatures because we've had to be. I mean, if you look at, you know, thousands of years of of evolution, one thing that was clear is that we had to fit in, right? Because if you didn't, if you had like an opinion that was contrary to like the common beliefs of your peers and groups and tribe, you were kicked out. And if you were kicked out, the chance of survival were very slim and forget about mating and reproducing yourself, that's just not going to happen. So it's actually ingrained in us to make sure that we fit in. It it is absolutely part of our DNA to make sure that we don't stand out, rock the boat or or potentially fear being rejected. So I want to I want to name that because if there's one thing I learned in this whole process that, you know, seven years of hosting my podcast of writing this book and researching this book is that a lot of the issue isn't so much information or logic or reason. A lot of it's emotion and psychological. And what I mean by that is we can break down a lot of bunch of tools and tactics on how to be more yourself or how to be more authentic or how to, you know, manage difficult conversations and all this stuff. But if you don't address the elephant in the room, which is I'm just really scared of what might happen if people really know who I am. Like, the book title of my book originally was going to be if only you if if you knew who I was or if only you knew who I was. But it was taken. Um, and that's because I think fundamentally, we are scared and look, I don't want to get too deep too soon in this podcast, but what I found is that most of the time, it comes down to the fundamental question of, am I enough? And do I love myself unconditionally? That's it. And I've worked with CEOs, with MDs, with founders, entrepreneurs, some of the multinationals, it doesn't matter. It always comes back down to those questions. And what I found is that if you can answer those questions of, yeah, I am enough with exactly what I have right now. And I am lovable for who I am, you know, I am darkness and I'm light and both are needed. If you can marry those two, then I feel it's much easier to accept who you are and therefore be more comfortable with the potential of being rejected by others because you've accepted yourself first. If that makes sense. Whereas if you haven't accepted yourself first, you're much more vulnerable to fear the rejection of others because it's a confirmation of what you already struggling with. I don't know if that makes sense. If I if I'm still tracking here, but it it is something that I find that is at the core of all this because when I'm saying, like I remember giving a talk at this big event and someone said, you know, employees, I'm hiring now, they're expecting to show up with blue hair and piercings and we're like a really corporate and very serious environment and blah, blah, blah. And they want to be themselves, but it doesn't fit. And and I think this brings an interesting question, which is at what point do we consider bringing ourselves being a hindrance to the business? And and what are some of the archaic beliefs systems that we've still bought in, such as, do you have blue hair, does that mean you can't do your job? I would argue no, right? But it's also about meeting meeting people where they are. Um, and I could go on a tangent on this for a while, but I just wanted to pause and to make sure that that made sense, you know, this idea of accepting and it's no easy feat. There's a reason why there's therapy and coaching and, you know, all that stuff. I mean, I'm still on that journey, right? I still, like I literally right in front of me, for people are not we can't really see this, but I've got a board, um, behind my camera and I have, I am darkness and I am light and both are needed. And that's a real journey for me to accept the shadow, to accept the darkness inside of me, the the fact that I can be selfish, the fact that I can be jealous, the fact that I can be judgmental, all these things that I hate, like I really put judgment on, the more that I've learned to accept those things, the more I've just showed up like myself. And the biggest compliment I get on on a on a regular basis when I talk on stage or when people come up to me is, you're the same. And and hopefully you you felt the same, but I'm the same whether I'm on this podcast, whether I'm on a stage, whether I'm writing in my book or you see me in the street or I'm playing with my kids. I'm the same guy. And I think that ultimately is for me one of the biggest tokens of freedom. To feel like I can navigate effortlessly between the different roles of my life. And of course, if I go and speak to my kids' school, I'm not going to swear. Like I'm not going to be, you know, I'm not going to share certain stories of like certain stories and and again, that, you know, not to plug the book over and over again, but it's I found that one of the big issues people had around understanding what stories are relevant, it was actually understanding what was the relevant context in which those stories could be shared. So, for example, you, I'm sure you've got like a stack of stories, right, especially in your line of work that you've you've seen over the years and, you know, how you open up your TED talk is really powerful. And so some of those stories are going to be relevant in certain contexts, but in certain contexts they won't. And so my goal is to help teach people to say, you can absolutely share your story, no matter how scary that is, no matter how much shame you have around your story, no matter how much fear you have in your story. But I would say not necessarily everywhere. If that makes sense, there are certain environments where you are more prone to to to get a safer response than than you would. And I learned that the hard way and I can tell you the story if you want at some point, but the idea is, you know, we have open wounds and they're not yet scars. And while they're open wounds, you might be better off to talk to a really intimate friend, someone you really trust, or talk to a professional, a therapist, someone that you know will hold the space without any judgment because I've heard it from friends, from clients, you know, who went who've been through sexual abuse, um, who've been some form of trauma and they've opened up maybe to a family member and it really backfired. And as a result, they kind of shut back like a turtle. And I've had to unpack that working with them around, look, it wasn't that the story was too much to handle. It was the person you shared it with just wasn't the right person to receive it. And so to navigate those conversations, I think is really important.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, man. I mean, there's so much there that I I want to unpack. I mean, on on a very personal level, I think the podcast, uh, as in my podcast has has been uh an an an incredible tool of self-expression, um, that's that's helped me on my journey. Um, and I think there's two fundamental questions. I mean, I I love like the TLDR of of most things, right? Like the too long didn't read. Like I just want to get down to the point. I I think it's my analytical mind. It's the fact that I love bullet points. It's the fact that I love a plan. I like to tick things off. Like I think it's probably what one of the the aftermath, um, uh, things of of being a junior doctor where you have like a a suite of jobs and you have a little tick box and you check them off. Like I just love that. And so having the knowledge of what at least one needs to work towards, obviously personalising it to them, but really around the two core questions, am I enough and do I love myself? I think these are like, you know, just hacks to happiness. And obviously there's going to be a lot of process and it's going to be very, very different depending on that person's experiences and their, you know, their their their childhood, etc. and their current environment. But I think I think that those are like really, really critical questions to ask everyone or everyone listening to this or watching this to ask themselves.
Mark: Yeah, and and and the trick is to not judge yourself if the answer's no. I think that's like my message to this point is it's okay, you know, we we go through these moments of, you know, sometimes I shout at my kids and I feel like a horrible dad. And if I had to answer, do I love myself right now? No, you know, I'd struggle in that moment. But, you know, Dr. Valerie Young, um, who wrote the book, you know, the the secret thoughts of successful women, it's an odd title for a great book about imposter syndrome. You know, she calls them imposter moments as opposed to you're feeling like an imposter. It's like, I'm having an imposter moment. And so I think it's like you're maybe having a wobble moment, but it doesn't mean on the average of like the day or the month or the week that you don't accept yourself. But yeah, 100%, those two questions and I would add a third one, which is, am I lovable? Because that's the result of those two questions. Am I enough? Do I love myself? If the answer's yes, then yeah, I'm lovable. And and and I would argue that it's difficult to be in a relationship with others truly if if if we don't do a little bit of work around those questions. And I know that's challenging and and tough, but yeah, I believe it.
Dr Rupy: Yeah. And and you mentioned you had to learn some of this the hard way. I wonder if you wouldn't mind sharing perhaps your your own experiences around this.
Mark: Okay, so there there's there's a gazillion examples, but one of them that comes to mind is years years ago, I was working with someone like a coach, right? He wasn't a therapist or a registered psychologist, you know, he was just, you know, kind of a life coach, I guess, but there's some great life coaches out there, by the way, and I used to be a do life coaching for many years and stuff. So I'm a big fan, but and I felt it was a safe space and and I kind of opened up about something that I had a lot of shame about, you know, it was back then, it was something around relationship, that was it. That I was just struggling in my relationship, I was struggling with ideations of having affairs and all this kind of stuff. And instead of being met with a curiosity and acceptance, which I've since years, years, years later learned through like therapy, it was a really judgmental reaction of kind of like, this is not a way to be as a man, who do you think you are, your partner needs to know these thoughts, you know, and I shut down and I remember having vulnerability hangover the next day, you know, going, I should have never said that. Why did I say that? I was stupid, I was silly. And blaming me and over the years I managed to unpack that experience by just realising, oh, it it just it triggered something in this person that couldn't be with what I was sharing, but it wasn't necessarily my fault in that sense. And once a story that I think that really captures that and some, and I kind of share the story towards the end of the book, but so my my mum has a complicated history and background in terms of her family dynamics. And her whole life when she was a kid, she'd basically been told it was her fault, right? So she carried this shame and this guilt through pretty much her whole life until early adulthood. And she hadn't told anyone. I think I might be, I think she might have told one person, like her best friend/her cousin. I think it was the only person who knew about the truth, right? And I'm putting air quotes here. Um, she moves in with my dad in France. So she's Welsh, you know, she's born and and raised in Britain, but comes over to France in her early 20s to be with my dad. And and kind of for some reason thinks if I'm going to be living the rest of my life with this man, I should probably tell him about this story. So she tells my dad this the truth for the first time, this story and she's got tremendous guilt and shame and she thinks that he's going to leave her because of this. And because I'm incredibly fortunate and just landed a really lucky star, I've got a very kind and gentle dad. He's the opposite of like the alpha male, if you want. Um, he basically looked at her and said, you know, your mum had no right to tell you those things. It's not your fault. And she just broke into tears. And as she was telling me the story, and it's in the book and she allowed me to share the story in the book, she was removed and she's in her 70s now, right? And I was moved and and she it took her 24 years to realise that the story that she had believed deeply that it was her fault that she should be ashamed and guilty for everything that happened in terms of her family, it wasn't her fault. And it just took someone to look at her and said that that wasn't right, that shouldn't have happened. And and I think that's an example of a perfect example of a of a story well received. If that makes sense, you know, someone she trusted, she felt comfortable with and and he took the story and and he held her in the way that she needed to. I'm forever grateful, you know, for that moment. Um, but I don't know if that answer that questions. I kind of go off on tangents, but that's yeah.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, no, no, I I love the tangents. These these are brilliant. I I actually have quite a lot of respect for for people like Greta and I agree. I don't think she did it for herself. I think she's really, you know, shining a spotlight on what needs to be shown on. And um, it's funny, talking about my own story. So I actually took years to to get in front of a camera. There's some there's some uh videos from like 20, I started the Doctor's Kitchen like 2015. There's some videos from like 2012 that will never see the light of day. It was just like me practicing in the kitchen. I had a buddy of mine, the only person I confided in that, you know, I wanted to start this thing because I was running late in clinic the whole time, like explaining recipes to people and I just needed to share it and get it out there and stuff. So it took me like a good four or five years before I even mustered the confidence to to get in front of the the camera. And I think, yeah, you're right, like having that confidence to talk about my story, my frustrations with the medical system, sort of putting my head above the parapet, uh, so to speak. Um, it was scary and it's still scary to be honest, even today, like, you know, after doing this and building the brand and all the rest of it, it's still uncomfortable to to get out there and talk about these things so openly. But because I I have the the sort of the cause and the mission behind it, that's kind of what propels me forward. And and the other thing to to your point about uh particularly the use of vulnerability, even the words vulnerability online, I feel sometimes in a micro and macro environment, it can be almost weaponized for the purposes of um, you know, selfish gains. So, you know, on a micro level, you'll have certain influencers, uh, I don't know, like, I don't know, I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are some genuine people out there, but like crying online and, you know, having the camera in front of them and like, I'm I'm feeling vulnerable. Like, yes, I I I get it. Sometimes it is really important because that can certainly make certain people feel better. But the sort of skeptical side of me is like, okay, we this this doesn't necessarily mean that this is helpful for everyone. And actually, you can spot when people are gaining. It's almost like, and a macro level, greenwashing. It's kind of like, you know, when H&M says, oh, we're doing this amazing stuff over here and look how great we are. But at the end of the day, you know, you're making masses of profits on the other side, uh, whilst pushing out this story that makes you look better on this side, whereas that's a fraction of actually, you know, your your intentions and everything. So, you know, I I just want to put that out there because I think it's important to to recognize that people are abusing this in certain domains, if you see what I mean.
Mark: Yeah, and and look, it's and it and it's going to happen. It's a pendulum, right? We always go through some sort of shift and change. What I will say is, don't let that, if you're listening, because I 100% agree with you, by the way, and if if you are also recognize that, don't let that get in the way of you feeling like I don't want to be associated to those people. By me opening up online, I will then be seen as one of those because it's different, right? So there's like this, if you look at some amazing resources on like how to how to unpack and share your story, and like one of the most famous ones is the 12-step process of Joseph Campbell, you know, who wrote the, you know, the hero the um thousand faces, uh, and uh, who basically found that there was a monomyth across all different cultures, religion throughout history, and that you can recognize all the the protagonists basically went through the same system. And whether that's Alice in Wonderland or the Matrix or or Game of Thrones or whatever. So they're all great, but they're often not very practical or easy to implement, especially in a business context or professional setting, right? So one of the things that I teach in the book is to go, okay, so if you break, so the first, by the way, if you want like a really practical tip for people listening, the first exercise that I get people to do is to just map out your stories, both professional and personal throughout your whole life. You take a big piece of paper, A3, A4, whatever you get, put a bit of music on with no lyrics on, that's my advice. And then you just map out, like from birth to date, what are some of the big moments that shaped you in some way or form, good and bad, right? So maybe your parents separated, maybe you had to move countries, maybe you went through some really traumatic experience, maybe you won a trophy, maybe you got a promote, whatever it is, you just write all those stories out, right? That's effectively what I would call like your story bank. You kind of, you know, that also call it the river of your river of life. So you map out all those stories and that can be overwhelming, right? You go, oh, what do I do with all this, Mark? That's great. I've, you know, I run a soccer competition or a football tournament when I was like six. How is that relevant? Now, this is where people go wrong. Most people are too close to their own stories. So there's there's like these, I think nine or 10 blockers I talk about in my story about what gets in the way of sharing your story. One of them is, I don't see how my story is important or how my story matters. So the metaphor I use is, so Ruby, what what's your favorite movie? Like if you had to go back right now and rewatch a film that you love, what's one of your favorite films?
Dr Rupy: Uh, that's a really good question. I get asked this a lot. Um, uh, I'm going to panic now. Uh, well, I mean,
Mark: Well, pick, don't don't overthink it. There's one that came up to mind that you probably judge as like, I can't say that out loud, but what is there a film that came up that you're just thinking because even if it's not the right one.
Dr Rupy: It's recently been Halloween and one of my favorite horror movies of all time is Saw. I freaking love Saw. It's amazing.
Mark: Saw. Fantastic. The first one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, cool. Okay, got you. So, so how many times would you say, okay, so first of all, the first time you saw Saw, what was it about Saw that was so special for you? Like what were the feelings that you felt?
Dr Rupy: Scared me. I was I was I was at med school. Uh, I was living in the basement of this uh house and it I'm a rational human being, right? And I was scared to go down into the basement after watching this movie.
Mark: Yeah. So it made an emotional, it had a real strong emotional connection, like, you know, a reaction to this.
Dr Rupy: And a lingering one. It wasn't just like in the moment. It's like it it it had an inception moment, right? Like you were going around creeping around like, oh,
Mark: cool. So how many times would you say you've seen Saw since?
Dr Rupy: Uh, three times, I think.
Mark: Three times. Cool. So imagine if I had to sit you down and I told you, right, Ruby, for the next 10 days, I want you to sit down, you're going to watch this film 10 times back to back. How do you think you'd feel after the 10th time?
Dr Rupy: Oh, probably pretty, I mean, very bored, emotionless. I probably wouldn't feel as scared anymore.
Mark: Sure. Now imagine if I had to sit you down and you had to watch it 100, maybe even a thousand times back to back. How do you think you'd feel about your story then?
Dr Rupy: Oh, pretty pretty numb.
Mark: Yeah. So that is how we are all with our own stories. We are with our stories on a day-to-day basis and it's so just boring to us that we don't see the value of it. But what you need to understand is that when you share your story for the first time, it will be that saw for the first time. If that makes sense. So one of the first things I'd tell people is like, take a meta view, take a helicopter view of your story and realize that you've been in the editing suite for way too long. You've been looking at this story over and over again for whatever since it's happened. So for you, it's boring, it's irrelevant, it's not interesting. But what you will find is that when you start sharing your story with someone else, someone might be like, wow, that's amazing. And you'll be like, really? And look, I've had people come on my show from they've rowed, you know, across the Atlantic on their own with no training whatsoever, right? Beat some world record and they're just like, but yeah, but anyone could do that. You know? And and but we all we all are we all victims of this. We all are. And look, you don't have to have this life-changing dramatic event for your story to be relevant. But the point is, the reason why I'm saying this is that I want people to understand that you might not be the best judge of your own story because like the example, if you think about your favorite film, if you saw it 100 times, you so imagine if you were the producer and you watched the saw 100 times like, this is boring and you didn't release it with the world. Imagine all the rubies of the world out there who would have missed out on that experience. And that's what I'm telling people. Like you don't know yet just how far and wide your story can impact, but if you focus on just changing one person's life who needs to hear it to not feel alone, that's your job's done. And I know that that can feel like, yeah, great, Mark, but that's hey, that's one person who might go and share it to one person and you have a ripple effect, right? So to come back to the practical tool, you've got the river of life. By the way, did that make sense that example of the story?
Dr Rupy: That made total sense. I that's such a cool exercise to do and actually that realization that because you sit with your story so much, it blunts the effect. It's almost like, you know, the hedonic adaptation. Once you get used to having this beautiful iPhone that is as powerful as your computer, you know, 10 times over when you were a kid, you kind of just get used to it. It's like, oh yeah, it's just my just my iPhone. It's an iPhone is magic.
Mark: By the way, the technology in this put someone on the on the moon. Yeah, exactly. The same technology, right? That is in here, put someone on the moon, peeps. Like, no, but that's but that's exactly right. That's exactly right. And so if you come back to this idea, and I'm just really going quickly through some of the process that I share in the book, but so you've mapped out all your stories and you go, great, Mark, now what? So then I go, look, imagine if I told you that you may not yet see what are some of the most powerful gems that you have in your stories. So anything's game, right? For in in your metaphor, if you want to go and do some amazing cooking and you want to teach your audience like how to make the most of what you've got, you probably got to go through your pantry. You've probably got to go through like what ingredients do you have? You can only do that when you look map them all out, right? Like you've probably got some really neatly structured in your in your kitchen around like the spices and stuff, but you need to see all the spices so that you know which ones you can use. You need to see how much, you know, grains or legumes or beans you've got in your storage. It's the same thing. Like the metaphor I use again around this is my my nephew, Liam and my niece, Emma, right? When they were little, they used to play with this pile of Legos that my brother used and I used to play 40 years ago. Um, and it's this really old denim bag that one of my mum's mates built with like some red strings so that when you pull it up, it kind of looks like a Santa bag. And then they would put it on the floor and we would just play for like hours and build all these different Lego structures and pieces with like honestly, I don't even know if it's Lego stuff, but there were pieces of Lego and all this stuff. But the point was, in order for us to see what we could build, we had to put everything on the floor. So Marie Kondo, right, like her principles of of tidying up is you need to have all your your socks and boxer shorts in front of you and all your big pens in one place so you can really go through them. It's the same thing with your story. Like if you hold back and when you do this process, a really important part is no one's going to see this apart from you. No one. So you can put everything and anything you want on this, knowing that you will I'm not asking you to share any of this because by the way, spoiler alert, yeah, I'm a big believer that if you share your story, you can change your life and transform your business and and impact the world with this stuff. But you don't have to because it will actually change the way you feel already and how you show up will change and have an impact, right? But once you've got that, once you've got all the pieces on the floor, I will say just pick one for the sense of this exercise right now that we're doing, your audience, just pick a story, right? So, uh, maybe for you it was this idea of Saw, right? We can go with the idea of the story of Saw. Like how is Saw going to be relevant to the Doctor's Kitchen today, right? We're going to work with that in a second. We're going to come up with something. So, the way that you make it helpful is that you take that story, so you go, I don't know, what do you remember what year it was?
Dr Rupy: 2004.
Mark: Okay, 2004. So it's 2004. I'm sitting in my basement, my ears are plugged into my laptop, and I'm watching this film Saw that my friend's been bugging me to watch. And he said, you've got to watch it on your own. And I'm like, that sounds weird, but I'm watching it. And then you say, then you might talk about like, then the film, the credits roll rolling in and I'm shocked and I'm stunned, you know. But here's what's really scary. I'm starting to freak out. You know, I'm a rational person. I'm a doctor, I'm a junior doctor. I know that this is all that it's not rational, but I'm sure that there's a guy with a mask behind my kitchen cupboard and I'm not going down that basement, right? So you've kind of took us into the story, you've made us a little bit feel and here's this is where most people go wrong, especially when we talked about like I'm crying online and, you know, trying to seek some attention through vulnerability, which can be helpful and sometimes not. The the really important part is the message. Why is that relevant? What did you learn? What can you teach? What can you give as a result? So I'm going to make something up on the spot, right? But if it was for you is like, what I realized is that this boogie man, this thing that we're scared of, we all have that even today. And and that can actually doesn't have to look like with a mask. It can look like I'm an incompetent chef. I'm so scared of opening that cupboard because what if I realize that I don't know how to cook for my family? You know? And so then you could land that message that way. I just it it made no sense what I just said, but the idea is you land a message. And if you can break down your stories by basically going, you know, uh, it's called context. So take me what's going on, content, share with me what's happened, and then conclusion. What is it that you learned from it? You know, it all you can say is take me, tell me, teach me. If you can break your stories that way, I've seen it with clients, I've seen it in workshops, I've seen it countless times. It's amazing because then you get a really simple structure. You kind of just go, you know, and I actually share in the book like a bunch of podcast guests and friends, I show you the formula in action. And and you'd be amazed now that I've told you this three-step formula, how much you'll recognize it in people who like show up, right? And and especially like thought leaders space, right? Who like authors and influencers, whatever you want to call us. They use a very similar method and and it's just a very simple one that everybody listening can practice with. And what I will finish off with this that particular point is, pick a story that right now feels okay, not too scary, but maybe not too safe either. And break it down, use that methodology, and then try and share it with someone, someone you trust, someone someone someone you might feel like the likelihood of it backlashing is pretty minimal. And start seeing what happens. And what I want more than anything, and this is what I've seen with clients, I've seen with beta readers of the book who told me all this is that they were amazed and shocked at what came back. What they thought was going to be backlash and rejection and hatred and trolling and fill in the blank, what they got is connection and love and acceptance. And that's I I don't I can't think of a a bigger wish I have for audience members and this people listening or watching to this is this idea that, oh, maybe I am enough. Maybe it's okay that I'm not perfect and maybe there is connection through through the story. And you know, I said to you that the original title is going to be if only you knew me, then the second title I wanted was uh from shame to service. But uh it hasn't got a mainstream appeal. So so I went with something a little bit different. But that's that's what it is. Right? Think about it. Think about everybody listening to this, if they could go from shame to service in some in some shape or way or form, which is focusing on myself, I am bad or I've done bad things or I'm not good enough and all the focus and attention is on myself to suddenly going, how can I help? How can I serve? What can I do? And and that that's like a bit of petrol in my mind.
