Emily: But even now I'll make notes, before and after and just if there's things going on, things that I want to discuss because it's quite emotional and and quite personal and you're sat there talking about your own health and and what you're dealing with, you can get really muddled and and flustered and it's but yeah, I would always say be an advocate for your own for your own body and your own wellbeing, definitely and keep keep going because you will get there eventually if you are out there and you're waiting for a diagnosis, don't give up. Don't give up.
Dr Rupy: Welcome to the Doctor's Kitchen podcast. The show about food, lifestyle, medicine and how to improve your health today. I'm Dr Rupy, your host. I'm a medical doctor, I study nutrition and I'm a firm believer in the power of food and lifestyle as medicine. Join me and my expert guests where we discuss the multiple determinants of what allows you to lead your best life. Today I speak with the wonderful Emily Johnson, a patient expert living with seronegative arthritis for seven years who's been documenting her journey through food, lifestyle, stress and its impact on her chronic condition on the Arthritis Foodie on social media. Through starting an online community, Emily has discovered all kinds of natural remedies, lots of conflicting advice as you'll hear, as well as healthy ways to stay active and live with arthritis. She's since written an Amazon number one best-selling book with contributions from a number of experts including rheumatologists, immunologists and more. And today we talk about Emily's diagnosis story, why you have to own your condition, whether it's arthritis or a long-term condition in general, her process of discovering triggers, inflammation fighting foods, as well as why a Mediterranean diet is a good starting point. We also talk about supplements, CBD, exercise and why stress has a significant impact. What I would do is as a refresher for what inflammation is in general, is listen back to episode number 19, I believe it is, with Dr Jenna on a previous episode of the Doctor's Kitchen podcast where we talk about inflammation in general. Plus, I would also look at the other pods that I've done on supplementation in general. I am a fan of making sure people's vitamin D levels are adequate through supplementation as per government guidance, but some people definitely need to check their vitamin D levels throughout the year. You can either get that done by your general practitioner or you can get online blood tests as well. For now, I really hope you enjoy Emily's story, Emily's tips, and you can check out her book Beat Arthritis Naturally across all bookstores. So, Emily, it was it was great to see you on Wednesday, on TV. Your first live TV appearance and now you're on Amazon number one best-selling author, which is epic. How are you feeling?
Emily: Thank you very much, Rupy. Oh my gosh, it was it was such a brilliant experience and I absolutely loved every minute and I'm just so grateful for the opportunity to spread the message, get people understanding how important lifestyle and food is around arthritis and living with arthritis from from day to day. So yeah, and the Amazon, the Amazon thing is just, yeah, it's it's it's absolutely unbelievable, it really, really is.
Dr Rupy: Yeah. No, it's great. You I mean, you deserve it, mate. And as we were talking about before, when you do TV, you only get like six or seven minutes to sort of transmit a 300 page plus book, with all with all the research and stuff that you put into it. So, this hopefully is like an opportunity to talk through the main concepts in the book and your mission and a bit about you. But I'd be fascinated to talk about how your journey started and and how now you find yourself in a position of being a patient expert.
Emily: The thing that I say in my book is that that your genetics hold the bullets, but your environment pulls the trigger. So I was always going to be sort of genetically susceptible to having arthritis. And yeah, for me, I was at my friend's barbecue, got a really bad case of food poisoning, and was just really ill for for weeks on end. Initially, this finger swelled up and then this finger and then my thumbs, and then I was just having really heavy fatigue, flu-like symptoms. I was really unwell, sleeping like 12, 16 hours a day. I'd just started my third year of university, so it was it was really testing, like difficult time. I had to go and live back home with my mum for a bit. Doctors just thought it was fresher's flu initially. Nobody really knew what was going on and it was a really difficult time. But also randomly, as as as we sort of look through my medical files, my mum was reminded that at four years old, I had swollen knees for a week and I was hospitalised. But then that was it. Nothing ever came of it and nothing ever happened again until I was 20 years old, which is when I've sort of ended up living with it for the last eight years.
Dr Rupy: Wow. And so take us back to when you were four years old. So what what what happened then?
Emily: So I can't I can't really remember myself because I was so so little. I can remember being carried to the toilet. in the hospital. But yeah, I just had these huge swollen swollen knees, lasting for for about a week. I had to be in hospital for, and they eventually went down and and everything was fine. They couldn't they checked me for juvenile arthritis for three months afterwards, but because everything went back to normal, they just sort of left it and wrote it off and never checked me again. But it is interesting because obviously the the susceptibility to having it was there and was there for me from a young age. Yeah, so it was then triggered, triggered an autoimmune response later in life when I was 20 when I had that food poisoning and my immune system started attacking itself essentially.
Dr Rupy: It's for me going into, I don't want to turn this into a patient history session, but learning about the journey from childhood has so many clues and plotting out a timeline of when they when someone was sick or when, you know, they've had issues often points to a lot of clues when you look retrospectively. And it's very interesting. I mean, you you wouldn't remember, but did your mother suggest any precipitating causes like an infection, a diarrhoeal illness, a flu, something like that when you were a kid that that set things off or did it just randomly happen?
Emily: It just it was completely random, I think, as far as I know, which is why she, yeah, sort of took me to hospital and then they sort of kept me in for testing and to see what was what was going on, but they couldn't they couldn't work it out. Yeah, it which is also kind of kind of mirrored later in life because they couldn't work out what was going on with me then either because none of the inflammation was showing in my blood, which it doesn't with because I've got seronegative arthritis. You've got seronegative and seropositive, I'm sure you know. And with seronegative it just just to unpack that for the listener for us.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, so there's two forms of rheumatoid arthritis, inflammatory arthritis. You've got seronegative and you've got seropositive. And with seropositive, you have markers in the blood that show that you have a lot of inflammation happening within the body. However, with seronegative, even though you have that inflammation, it's not showing up in the blood, which makes it a lot harder to and a lot and yeah, takes a lot longer to get a diagnosis. So for me, what did it was was ultrasounds, which I I pushed for because I was like, look at my hands. I was like, there's definitely something going on here. And so yeah, I had an ultrasound of my of my joints and and they were classed as severe, which then they they were like, okay, it's seronegative arthritis. Yeah. So yeah, that's the difference, which is why it does take it does take a bit longer.
Emily: Yeah. I was going to say going back to your story when you were around the time that you had your second flare, let's call it, when you were at university, you were initially sort of disregarded by your general practitioner or whoever you were seeing and then it took a while. How long did it actually take for you to perhaps see a specialist and then get a formal diagnosis?
Dr Rupy: Yeah, so it took it took about, I think it took about a year to get into the rheumatology department and then even a bit longer to sort of get that diagnosis just because I saw so many different GPs. I even went to A&E at one at one point because I remember waking up, this is before I went back home, and I woke up and I was like, oh my god, I can't move my hands. And I was just so panicky and and went to went to A&E and they didn't know what was going on. But yeah, it took it took a while to get that referral. And then of course, when you when you get that referral, it's a three-month wait. Then you get the appointment and it's like, right, okay, let's let's do some tests. Then it's another wait. You know, there's there's God bless the NHS, they do an amazing, amazing job, but there are a lot of of of processes and and waiting lists unfortunately. So it that's what took took the time, I guess. I I can't really blame the practitioners or or my rheumatologist. It was just a case of, okay, we've got to cross this off the list, then this, then this, then this. And then we've got to try this medication, this medication. And initially, I got, you know, it was chronic fatigue syndrome. Someone thought it was that, fibromyalgia, and then they said, okay, you've got inflammatory arthritis off, you know, from having an infection and it's just going to last a year. But it didn't and it hasn't. So yeah, it's yeah, really, really long process. But by the time I sort of was starting to be on medication, yeah, it was almost almost two years, year and a half, two years, yeah.
Emily: Wow, wow. And what what was the first medication they put you on?
Dr Rupy: So they tried me on sulfasalazine, and naproxen. Actually, no, naproxen was the first one, then sulfasalazine, then hydroxychloroquine, and then methotrexate.
Emily: Okay, fine. So just for the listeners, those are a varied mixture of powerful drugs and opiate, sorry, not opiate, painkilling medications that reduce inflammation. And just to go back to that point, I think about chronic disease in general and finding a diagnosis, it's fantastically common, unfortunately, within a healthcare service that provides universal healthcare at no cost at the point of care. And like you said, it's an incredible service that we actually have that we pay through via taxation. Really good for acute care, quite poor when it comes to chronic care. And unfortunately, that lands on the doorstep of general practitioners who are fantastically overworked because you're probably patient number 15 in the morning of 40 plus all the other interactions via telephone and prescriptions and and all the managerial duties as well of your typical primary care physician. So we we we tend to have a lot of lag in initial diagnosis and then referral, which we're sort of fighting for the patient for as well because secondary care is also backed up. And then to actually get a formal diagnosis where you have treatment, you know, it's it you can see all the different barriers along the way and why people get lost because this, particularly with arthritis and particularly someone who's young, this is something that takes quite a while usually to get a diagnosis, right?
Dr Rupy: Yeah, it it's very common and and speaking to, you know, my community through arthritis foodie, I've had so many young people come to me and say, this is this was the same for me and this happened to me and and it is a case of, you know, even now I don't look like I've got arthritis. I don't look like I live with anything at all. So it is it is that barrier of like, no, I am I am in pain and this is happening to me and this is real. And I I speak about it in the book, but you almost have to be a real advocate for your own body, for your own health, for your own wellbeing, because nobody else is going to do it for you and nobody else knows what you're living with day to day. You know, keep that diary, keep keep a record of what's going on, you know, and my mum used to come with me to the appointments. But even now I'll make notes before and after and just if there's things going on, things that I want to discuss because it's quite emotional and and quite personal and you're sat there talking about your own health and and what you're dealing with, you can get really muddled and and flustered. And it's but yeah, I would always say be an advocate for your own for your own body and your own wellbeing, definitely and keep keep going because you will get there eventually if you are out there and you're waiting for a diagnosis, don't give up. Don't give up.
Emily: I you know, I think this is a really important point to to emphasize that people need to really take ownership of their health because even though we have a fantastic system that works, you almost have to make it work for you. So the things like taking notes before and after, coming with the questions, asking for investigations, those are things actually that we should be encouraging because unfortunately, if you're passive in the management of your healthcare, when it comes to things like chronic disease, a lot of things can get missed. And I think a lot of my medical colleagues would probably agree with me when they unfortunately have family members or close friends who are ill, they almost become their healthcare managers. They're like, make sure you ask this, this, this, this, because these are the things that we're looking out for. So you have to make sure you you take ownership of that. And I think perhaps it it's going to require a bit of a cultural shift to put more, not not to say that, you know, it's going to be the sole responsibility of the patient. We obviously have responsibility as healthcare providers, but we have to change that culture such that patients become their own advocates and they actually not become demanding, but certainly they have a lot more onus and a lot more involvement in in how they're managed and and obviously encouraging questioning as well.
Dr Rupy: Completely agree. I completely agree with that. And I think it it it comes down to as well, not only just when you're in that room, but when you're outside of that room, being being an advocate for your health as well with, you know, your lifestyle, what you're eating, what you're doing, your exercise. I mean, we're going to come on to this, aren't we anyway, but it's all the things around that as well. And you know, and I say in the book for a long time, I sort of I did I did let everybody else deal with my arthritis. You know, I was like, I'll I'll leave it to the medication. I'll leave it to my rheumatologist. They can sort it out. And I was really just sort of completely disengaged from it, which actually made it worse because I wasn't I wasn't I wasn't listening to my own body. I wasn't I wasn't paying attention. And I just, yeah, didn't want anything to do with it. Whereas now I'm like, no, I live with this from day to day. How can I make living in my body with this better from day to day and and and make it better for me. So yeah, it's all the things, yeah, not just in that in that consultation room that you can do for your for your health as well. Absolutely.
Emily: There's another side to this as well. Not not only is it about owning your arthritis and being actively involved in your management, but it's also about owning your your arthritis at a psychological level. Like this is me, this is yes, I'm identifying with this condition, but I can be the best I can be given the, you know, the the issues I I'm experiencing. And you talk a bit about that as well.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, absolutely. And and it it is it's it's kind of not doing the it's this is versus me. It's the arthritis versus me. It's it's the arthritis is a part of my life and how can I live with it better? And yeah, and psychologically it actually becomes more of a relief when you do that because you're not you're not running away from it. You are facing it and you're kind of learning to understand it. And I say in the book, you know, if you have to live with someone 365 days of the year, you know, seven days a week and month by month, you know, do you really want to make that person an enemy? No, absolutely not. You want to make them a friend. You want to understand them. You want to live with them in in a way that's as best as possible really. And it also it's different from from person to person, you know, because there there are over 100 different types of arthritis and there's so many, you know, I think there's like over 80 autoimmune diseases. There's so many different ways that this this can present itself from person to person in in your body. So, you know, what might work for me might not work for somebody else, but it's it is a case of finding out what works for you. And you know, this book isn't, you know, it's not going to, you know, just like take everything away and this is it, read my book and and everything's going to be fine. It's it's read my book and learn from it and see what's in it that can help you. And hopefully there's something in it that can help everybody, but it is, yeah, having that advocacy over your own over your own body, definitely.
Emily: Just to touch on that a little bit more, how have you always had that kind of disposition in terms of your personality of of getting on with things and recognizing that this is part of you or is that a bit of a process? And if so, did you have help or did you read things?
Dr Rupy: So for me, it was a massive process. I, when I first got arthritis, I didn't tell anybody. I was felt quite ashamed and embarrassed, not that I ever should have been, but I I did feel like, oh my god, I'm so young and every time I went to the hospital, it was just full of elderly people. I was like, oh my god, there's nobody living with this my age. I just I just couldn't understand it. I I was just so so, yeah, completely disengaged, didn't didn't feel like I could live with it at all. It was very much like the arthritis versus me. And I just carried on and and tried my best to carry on as if I didn't have it, which made it worse, you know, I really struggled to keep up. And and it and it wasn't really the the best thing for me to do. So no, absolutely not. I it it's definitely taken me time to accept, but but accepting it become, yeah, it's it's a huge, like I said, it's a huge weight lifted and you just feel like, okay, this is me, this is okay. It's it's a part of my life. It's not exactly who I am, but it is a part of my life. And yeah, it does make you sort of think more positive, more positively about it. And also, it helps you to listen to your body because that what that wasn't what I was doing. Those years ago, I didn't I didn't listen to my body at all. But in terms of what sort of changed and sort of triggered me to sort of look at it differently, I I I started the arthritis foodie account in 2018. My my colleagues were really healthy and they were like, Em, you should really look into food. And so I did and I went on social media, couldn't find anything. So then I started just blogging about food and and sort of, yeah, reaching out to loads of different, you know, healthy food bloggers online and I just I couldn't find anyone that was talking about arthritis. And I and I kept it anonymous. So even then I was like, I don't I don't want to put my face to this. And then, yeah, I I and I was speaking with my friends and and I had so many young people messaging me and I was like, oh my gosh, you know, do you know what? If if if if this is going to help people to see my face, to see that this is also what arthritis can look like, then maybe this is what I'm here to do. And I just felt like a real purpose and that I had to do this and and um, you know, I never set out to to end up I had no idea I was ever going to be on national TV. That's that's completely unexpected and and not planned at all. Um, I just thought, I just want to help people. That's all I want to do. Um, so yeah, I think it's and and because of that, I feel like it's opened doors for other people to do the same. And and when I first started the account, there was barely anyone on on social media talking about living with arthritis. And now there's hundreds and thousands of accounts of young people talking about it day-to-day things that help them and things that they do and um, you know, and I just think it's absolutely wonderful. I think it's amazing because it just it just makes you feel less alone. It really, really does. And I think when you don't talk about it and you hold it in, you're damaging yourself, but you're also damaging other people because they feel alone too. So, you know, the more you talk about it, the better really and it it helps you and it helps other people. Um, to answer your question in a very long.
Emily: Yeah, no, definitely the the positive the positive edge of of social media for sure. Um, I mean, there's loads of negatives, but I think uh creating community and connecting with people who identify or or suffer with with similar things is is I think fantastic. Um, there there's even organizations like Health Unlocked where they purposely have uh communities built around conditions so people can share experiences, feel uh connected to other people um through those shared experiences. And it it definitely resonates with me a lot actually because when I people are probably sick of me banging on about the story, but when when I was diagnosed with atrial fibrillation at the age of 24, um it it was very much uh and still is relatively uncommon to have a young person with this condition. Uh it usually affects people in their 50s, 60s plus. Um the uh potential triggers were, you know, non-existent in me. There was no real explanation as to why I was suffering from it. So there was definitely a lot of frustration and embarrassment that this was something that I with no family history, with no other issues and amongst all my colleagues who are, you know, just living their normal 20 something year old lives, why me sort of thing. Um Yeah, that definitely went through my head as well. Like an Yeah, exactly. Yeah, like an an invisible cloak of embarrassment. Um does is that something that sort of resonates with yourself as well?
Dr Rupy: Yeah, absolutely. Oh my gosh, absolutely. I was like, why is this happening to me? And how is this happening to me? And oh my gosh, yeah, I I totally just, yeah, really found it so difficult, so difficult um to to feel like I could get a handle on it. And again, just didn't want to associate myself with it, which is almost hilarious now because I'm like, associate me with arthritis, I'm arthritis.
Emily: When you think of arthritis and food, you think of arthritis foodie, yeah. So what for me it was difficult enough like with my medical degree and you know, having been formally trained in analysis and looking through papers and all that kind of stuff. For me, it was hard enough to even a consider food as a viable um uh complementary management option. So something that was uh in addition to the pharmaceuticals I was taking, the interventions that well, not the interventions, but the investigations that were quite interventional. Um, you know, I struggled to to know where to start if I'm honest. Um what what was that like for you when when you sort of found in the ether that maybe food and lifestyle could potentially help?
Dr Rupy: Yeah, I I felt really overwhelmed initially, um because if you if you Google arthritis food, arthritis diets, it is I mean, there's just so much out there. And there's so many contradictory things. Like some people say dairy is good, some people say dairy is bad. Some people say gluten is bad, you know, there's just so many there's so many contradictory things. But do you know what? I I tried everything. I was like, I'm going to try I'm going to try it all because I was just I I just got to a point where I was just so I was I was in a complete state of despair really actually with my arthritis. I was I was in a really bad, bad place. Um so I was just willing to try absolutely everything and anything. Um and then as I started to sort of research, look into things myself, you know, um I really started to think, okay, I think there might be something in this. And and I read more about the Mediterranean diet and I came across you. One of my friends bought me your book actually for my birthday. Yeah. I think that was in 2019, 2018, 2019, she bought me your book anyway and was like, this is guy who does like really healthy food, you should check it out and like bought me your book for my birthday. Um, Deliciously Ella, you know, all the all the like amazing, wonderful people that are are talking about these diets. I got, you know, I got got into that and started looking at how, yeah, how how it can help. And but I did try everything. I really, really did. And then, um, I did notice it did start to help and and I started to track also things that weren't helpful and and things that were inflammatory to me and made my arthritis worse. Um, and then I was like, I think there's I think there's something in this, I really, really is. And thought, okay, you know, why is why isn't there a book about this? Why isn't there something out there? And and yeah, I sort of made it my mission um two years ago to start writing about about about these things, um and how it how it's helped me, yeah.
Emily: When you Google anything, how to eat for insert condition, symptom, whatever it is, you're going to find like absolutely everything and they and they always contradict. Some people are saying meat, some people are going vegan, some say you can't have nightshades and oats and and you know, it's it's just a a complete mindfield. And and then it kind of spirals into those restrictive diets. And particularly people who are younger and more impressionable, that's where it has a real psychological impact, which is why I'm always mindful even on my socials to to this day, you know, warning people, if you do have an unhealthy relationship with with food in general or specifically healthy food, then I'm not the person to be following and actively asking people to to sort of unfollow. But waiting through all those different contra uh uh contradictions online, how did you find the diet that sort of like figured things out for you? How did did you have like a formal uh trigger and and helpful sort of list of foods and and and what was that process like?
Dr Rupy: Yeah, so I basically um made a list of all the things that could potentially trigger, made a list of all the things that potentially would help. Um and just, yeah, kept a food diary and kept a trigger of of of of everything. Um even to the point of like my toilet habits and what was going on there, like the gut, all of it. Um and yeah, it's great. Yeah. I was like, I've got because 70, you know, you know, 70 to percent, 78% of the immune system is in the gut. So and when you live with an autoimmune disease, I was like, there's got to be something in that, surely. Um and they're actually researching it now, um versus arthritis is is researching the connection between the gut and rheumatoid arthritis. Obviously, that's not a study that's out yet or or or ready, but um but it's something that is being looked into, which is brilliant, um because I do think there's something in it. Um especially because my arthritis was triggered by food poisoning as well. So, yeah, um yeah, I just, yeah, Mediterranean diet, I just, you know, it's it's amazing. It's it's packed with everything really that that is that is anti-inflammatory and that can help hopefully. Um but yeah, in terms of triggery things, um like deep fried foods, I found really just not not good at all. Um and um certain types of dairy like really like really heavily processed cheese, like if I had like a pizza, I mean, that's just like a no for me now. Um or if I do have it, I just accept that I'm going to suffer the next day, you know, because I think what you were saying about food and being restrictive with yourself, you know, I I at the start, I was so strict with myself and I brought tupperwares of food to my friend's houses if they were all eating somewhere, you know, I was very I was very strict and I was like, I'm I'm going to follow this to the to the like to the tea. I'm going to do this right. But then actually, it started to make me feel a bit rubbish and a bit miserable because I couldn't join in. So I think now if if, I mean, I I don't I mean, I don't really like how I feel the day after, but but if I did want to have fried food, I I could have it. I don't stop myself from having it, but I just know, okay, it might my joints might hurt tomorrow. You know, it's it's just it's just the kind of the kind of um the peace in knowing what's going to happen to me rather than worrying, oh god, what if I eat this, what what's going to happen? It's kind of like again, being an advocate over your own body, your own health and understanding it more and listening to your body. Um but yeah, I think um, you know, food is such a social thing. So I eat as well as possible and and I'm as healthy as possible, but I also don't restrict myself if, you know, I do want to eat out with my friends, you know, I'll probably still choose something healthy off the menu because that's what I'm like, but but you know, but I but I, you know, but I do still have those those social occasions. I I do love sushi, so I will treat myself to that sometimes.
Emily: I I I think um I think it's really good that we're talking about this actually because it um we we there is a balance between everything. There's a balance between uh healthy eating and uh becoming obsessive about healthy eating such that it causes stress, which actually has a negative effect as we'll talk about in a little bit. Um the other side of it, I think has become a bit unfashionable to talk about restriction in in the sense that it can potentially help initially. So for me, I know that uh when I eat poorly, I feel rubbish the next day. So I have to utilize some um uh inhibition. I have to, you know, use some restriction. Um and and we have to get comfortable with that concept of guilt because that actually enforces good behaviour. When guilt spirals into something worse, such that you feel shame, that's when you've got an issue um that needs addressing. And so I think, you know, everything is on a spectrum and and I on social media, again, the the negative side of social media, it's quite easy to just go black or white. Um it's very polarizing and because you're utilizing a character limited platform, you don't have any discussion around the nuance of these topics, which is why a podcast and hopefully talking to people like yourself and others allows for that discussion to come through that you really have to own what works for you and what doesn't. And sometimes, yeah, you know, having a a bit of restriction is a good thing.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, no, I I totally agree and I and I think if you are initially starting out on wanting to track um food and how it affects you and and how stress affects you, how anything affects you and putting these restrictions in place does help. So when, you know, those first weeks of trying to sort my gut out, absolutely, it helped to have those restrictions because then I gradually, I talk about it in the book as well, you just gradually add one thing in at a time so that you can notice whether or not that is having an effect. If you're still eating all the same things, you're not eating very healthily and then you add another inflammatory food, is it what food is it that's that's that could be causing that you don't really know. Um but if you're if you're being, you know, a bit strict with yourself, you know, to a certain point, then you can track keep track of those things. But I think the longer term, so, you know, I'm talking like a six weeks testing period, but longer term, like, you know, months and months, you know, you don't necessarily need to do it for months and months and months or a year at a time because that is restricting and that is that will start to affect you mentally. Um, yeah.
Emily: Yeah. And so starting with a, well, you you mentioned eventually sort of settled on a a Mediterranean style diet. And just just for the listeners, you know, that is one with good quality healthy fats, lots of colours, uh beans and pulses, uh limited use of animal products, um plenty of water, eating, you know, at a table. It's more of a style of eating rather than a a diet per se. Um and if you measure the Mediterranean diet, um along with many other diets, like a vegan diet or a vegetarian diet, as long as it's well planned, um the dietary inflammatory index states that it is uh very anti-inflammatory. Let's talk about some of those ingredients because I'm sure like people listening to this are just chomping at the bit to find out, okay, what kind of foods should I be experimenting with or trying out to see if I like uh according to that dietary inflammatory index? Which ones do do you talk about in in your book?
Dr Rupy: Oh my gosh, so many different ones. Um I yeah, I guess yeah, oh my god, I don't know where to start. Um herbs and obviously your herbs and spices, I talk a lot about this. Um and you know, when I first started out the journey, turmeric was something that people used to go on and on at me about. Arthritis and turmeric, arthritis and turmeric. Um but that there is actually a lot of evidence around it being super anti-inflammatory. And if you have it with black pepper, it increases the absorption by 2,000%. So that's one. Um obviously you've got things like your basils, um you know, herbs, herbs and spices and things a bit like that. Um yeah, I mean, oh my gosh.
Emily: Yeah, I think we we often forget about those like typical sort of herbs, uh culinary herbs like um basil, marjoram, oregano, rosemary. They they can be just as impressive as um turmeric and and even curcumin when it's curcumin being one of the active components of of turmeric. One thing I love about cooking with these ingredients is that you're getting the whole complexity of the of the plant or the leaf. Um which we don't fully understand, but we know that when we incorporate them into our diets, it it definitely has an an impact. And and they, you know, they have loads of different names like carnosol and um hydroxytyrosol that you find in some oils like extra virgin olive oil.
Dr Rupy: Extra virgin olive oil, yeah.
Emily: Yeah. And you're a big fan of matcha tea as well, another sort of fashionable product.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, I could I could talk about that for days. I absolutely love that. I absolutely love matcha. It's it's got 136 times more antioxidants than green tea. Um it's it's so, so good for you. I honestly, I love it. I absolutely love it. I try and have it almost every day if I can. I have it I make it at home. And it's quite a mindful thing as well. So you have your powder, your water, you whisk it. You know, I've got my milk frother that I put my almond milk in and then you you just pour it in and then oh, it's just it's just a time for yourself as well. And you know that it's going to be delicious and it's good for you. Um so yeah, that's a that's a massive one that I yeah, my my if anyone that follows me will know that I would yeah, I am the matcha girl.
Emily: Yeah, yeah. It's it's brilliant. Actually, um Dr Gemma Newman, um when she came onto my pod, uh brought with her a matcha bowl with a whisk. Um and so and it's very mindful and it's a it's a proper bowl. I think it was from Japan and it's got some ridges. So when you put the matcha powder, which is like this vibrant green colour, um you you kind of mix it around with the whisk and so it incorporates with your your warm water like quite easily. Um and you know, the evidence around matcha is is really impressive. You know, it's full of those different types of catechins. It's slightly lower in caffeine, so it has less of a jittery effect and it contains theanine as well, which is uh like a not an anxiolytic, but it it has a calming effect as well. And I think the whole, you're right, the whole process of of making matcha itself is is quite stress relieving.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, it's so, so nice. And I yeah, I think with coffee as well, you obviously, you know, I I occasionally have coffee as a treat, but you you have that spike of energy, don't you? And then and then a bit of a drop. But with anytime I have matcha, I have like this calm release of energy because you've got the L-theanine and you've got the caffeine and it's just like this gentle constant release of caffeine and L-theanine during the day for like eight hours and it's just it just makes you feel lovely.
Emily: Amazing. Definitely. You'd think I was talking about a drug, wouldn't you? But I'm not. It's literally just green tea.
Dr Rupy: Well, well, they they do say coffee is the most widely distributed psychoactive uh available to everyone in in the planet. So, yeah. Um and so so let's let's talk about green foods. So uh green in general, you know, as we're on matcha. Um so there's a whole different plethora of different types of of green foods. I always banging on about them all the time. What what kind of green foods uh do you recommend?
Emily: So I and this people are probably going to roll their eyes, but kale. I even I'm rolling my eyes. I have it in so many recipes though, kale and spinach. I love it. They're just so easy to cook with. You know, you can just whack them in smoothies, you whack them in salads, you know, um you can put them in curries, so chickpea curry. Um they're amazing. Um brown rice, uh I try and eat whole, you know, the whole grain uh form of of of yeah. Um what else? Oh my gosh, yeah, I yeah, I absolutely I absolutely love food.
Dr Rupy: So so yeah, yeah, no, I mean, um all the different types of greens, particularly the ones from the the Brassicaceae um uh group. So you you have like pak choi and um bok choy, choy sum, uh the broccoli and the interesting thing about these um this this sort of group, this family is the more bitter the better. And they contain things like glucosinolates, indole-3-carbinol, um and sulforaphane that we've we've actually talked about sulforaphane on a on a whole podcast because it's super, super um interesting. And they activate um via a number of different uh chemical stages, Nrf2 or NRF2. Um and that has a direct antioxidant, um sorry, anti-inflammatory effect at a cellular level. So this sort of provides extra reason as to why to um incorporate into your into your diet, not just because, okay, that's having one effect, but that's going to have like a synergistic effect with the rest of the food that you're consuming. So you just mentioned there like, you know, kale and and and turmeric. It's not those things are having individual effects. It's when you combine them as part of a a diet that you maintain for a long time, that's why you can have these these uh a plethora of different effects on your overall inflammatory load. Um so yeah, greens are fantastic, herbs and spices are fantastic. Um any other sort of ingredients that are like your your go-to?
Emily: Um so butter beans, I absolutely love butter beans. Yeah, butter beans. I love butter beans. Again, you can throw them in anything. Um I sometimes put them in soups, um salads, um yeah, I just I think they're I think they're amazing and they're so delicious. Um chickpeas, so obviously hummus, but again, you can roast them. I I have them as like a snack sometimes. Um or you can put them again, you can put them in salads, um or you can put them in curries, so chickpea curry. Um they're amazing. Um brown rice, uh I try and eat whole, you know, the whole grain uh form of of of yeah. Um what else? Oh my gosh, yeah, I yeah.
Dr Rupy: What what did um within your community, so I'm assuming, you know, you've got loads of different people, generally of a younger sort of predisposition, but I'm sure you've got a plethora of different ages, like a spectrum of different ages. Do some people thrive on different diets and and how have they worked those out for themselves? Because I I think a lot of people listening might be, well, I've I've heard that lectins aren't very good for you or nightshades aren't very good for you. Do you see that in your audience that some people warm to different diets?
Emily: Yeah, so um so I always say to people, obviously, you know, start with the Mediterranean diet and see how you get along, but if there are things in it that that don't suit you necessarily like nightshades or or dairy, then definitely keep a track of keep keep a track of that um for yourself, for your own wellbeing because, yeah, it it it there might be something in that. I mean, for this book, I researched absolutely everything. Um and I couldn't find anything on nightshades right now for arthritis and autoimmune diseases. There could be something in it. I mean, if it if it affects you, then definitely, you know, have have a look into it for yourself. Um but I did a poll on tomatoes because that's another one because they're they're a bit of a, you know, people say don't eat so that's something I did actually cut out to to see if it had any effect and it and it didn't. Um but I did a poll on my Instagram stories about a year ago, um and it was about 50/50. You know, some people said that it did and some people said that it didn't, but it was about 50/50. Um but again, there's no there's no evidence for it, but like I said, you're the advocate for your own body. So if it if it's affecting you, then of course, absolutely. Um if, you know, if it is if it is bothering you, then try not to use them. But another thing um Dr. Gemma mentioned actually on our on our Instagram live the other day and she was saying about oil, that some people have cut out oil and found that that helps, um which I hadn't heard of actually and I haven't haven't found anything for that. But again, if it's something that helps you, then then do it, you know, I'm not I'm not sitting here saying this this is the the complete all and all, this is what you should stick to. It's it's more of a this is a guide and this is a place to start and then go off and and see what works for you.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, no, I I think we we all need to use that sort of um uh rational uh thinking and that rational approach and like I said earlier, we we are by virtue as as being human beings, we do gravitate unfortunately to to negative thinking and negative stories about ourselves, but we have to remind ourselves of the rationality that actually things are going to be getting better and and you know, it might take weeks, it might take months, it might take years, but things will always get better uh eventually and it's it's it's a mindset hack that people need to practice every single day, which is why I'm a massive fan of gratitude. I've banged on about it so much over the last few years. Actually, it was funny, one of my friends, one of my best friends, um whose kids are my my godchildren, uh he was going through a bit of a time recently and uh he's always taken the mick out of my gratitude uh practice like that I I started sharing like a few years ago and uh he started doing it himself and he's like, you know, this kind of this this actually works. Good that you've helped him even if it's taken taken some time.
Emily: I actually feel like the people closest to you don't always don't always listen to you. Like my like my mum bless her like she she used to roll her eyes when I used to talk about kefir and now, I mean, she texts me and she's like, Emily, have you have you heard about kefir? I was like, mum, have I heard about kefir? And she loves it now. She absolutely loves it.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, I I get that a lot from my friends actually. Like, have you heard about this like, you know, the the gut stuff and like, you know, how how uh changing like uh epigenetics. I was like, read chapter seven of my first book that I I talked to you about this and and clearly didn't buy the book. So I don't want to tell the story. I want you to tell the story just in case I don't want to tell anything that you don't, yeah, but you but you you tell you tell the story of how uh we first met.
Emily: I I can tell the story. Yeah, that's that's fine. So, um as many people may or may not know, I'm really clumsy. Um and I was at work in the office and I was using a knife that I hadn't used before. That's an excuse. I it would have happened whatever, whatever. Um I was getting a stone out of an avocado, cut my hand open and ended up at uh at hospital in A&E. And I was getting my hand seen to, I was getting it cleaned out, getting the stitches put in. It was very, very painful. And I saw who I thought was Doctor's Kitchen walk past my uh walk past my hospital um curtain. And I was like, no, it can't be. It can't be. Oh my gosh, I really want to try and speak to him with this like bleeding, stitched up hand, avocado hand. I was like, how on earth am I going to and he obviously Rupy was working. I was like, I can't disturb the guy. He's a very busy man. Um so I just thought, you know, what will be will be. So uh I had my my hand cleaned up and the and the the doctor said to me, you're going to have to go and get an x-ray. So I was like, all right, okay, fine. Um she gave she sort of gave me directions and I went over to the x-ray department. Got to the x-ray department and they said, Emily, you need a yellow form. I was like, well, I've not I've not got a yellow form. She she didn't give me one. And they're like, well, you're going to have to go back and you're going to have to go and get the yellow you're going to have to get the yellow form and come back. I was like, oh, right, okay, fine. So Typical NHS bureaucracy there. Oh, I'm actually very grateful they didn't give me that yellow form because as I left that x-ray department, I was walking down the corridor and the only other person opposite me on that corridor was Dr. Rupy. And I thought to myself, Emily, you've got to talk to him. You've got to say hello because it's not going to happen again. Um so yeah, so I just I just stopped him and um said, are you Doctor's Kitchen? I've got your recipe book.
Dr Rupy: And it doesn't happen that often. I was kind of like, who's uh I I I because we we see multiple patients at a time. I was like, I'm pretty sure you're not my patient. You've mistaken me for someone else. But yeah, no, that was that was quite funny. You did have like a bandaged uh hand.
Emily: I had this hand. I was like, excuse my avocado hand. And gave him gave him a whole pitch about arthritis foodie. And uh yeah, you were so lovely and and sort of stayed in touch and has, yeah, definitely helped me on this journey and getting this book published for sure. Um so thank you, Rupy. And uh yeah, very very strange but wonderful. Um thank you for for not giving me that yellow form, whoever that was.
Dr Rupy: That's so funny. Yeah, it's me probably like walking around the corridor, skiving off work. Oh no, I've been caught. No. I work hard. I work hard. Um yeah, no, that was that was funny because I I don't think I'd come across your work before and uh and when you told me about it, I was like, yeah, no, 100%, you should you should absolutely be putting stuff out there and talking about it. And if you have the confidence to to build up a community and all that kind of stuff, it's it's brilliant and we need more sort of people talking about their stories. So, yeah, and I'm I'm really glad to see that you're now, you know, smashing it in the Amazon charts and on TV and stuff and with loads of people actually messaged after um you were on uh BBC this morning to say, you know, it was it was really well done or so and so uh suffers from arthritis. I'm definitely going to get the book for them and yada yada. So, you know, to to your point about how little interest there is perhaps from certain specialists, there needs to be a lot more because it's going to be patients like yourselves, the community of people who are going to be banging on the doors asking for that information and for better access to uh the information and ways in which to instill this into their daily lives, um because as we know, it works. So, thank you. That's brilliant. Really good.
Emily: Thanks, Rupy. I'm glad we met in that corridor.
