Jess Robson: We do have a mental health crisis on our hands and the only way I see us actually moving to a place where we don't have that crisis is if we start normalising having those conversations amongst our peers. If we normalise having those conversations with our running friends or our colleagues or our friends without qualifications, then we're moving closer to people feeling supported at all times.
Dr Rupy: It's mental health awareness week this week and I wanted to do a bonus episode about an initiative that I randomly came across through I believe it was a direct message on Instagram through a friend of a friend, and I'm really glad that happened because Jess Robson is on the pod today and she is the driving force behind Run Talk Run. Run Talk Run is a global mental health support community that uses running as a means to facilitate peer support. An amazing idea. It's so innovative and I totally see the mechanisms behind why this is so impactful and actually they're doing some research about it and we mentioned that briefly on the show too. Having experienced a difficult relationship with formal therapy, Jess actually found solace in opening up with ease whilst running and chose to open up that space to other people struggling with mental ill health as well and it's since grown to a community of 150 volunteers, each with groups of varying sizes as you'll hear on the pod today. Jess is an advocate for making running less intimidating and I'll be honest, even for me, the thought of going on a running group is quite intimidating. But Run Talk Run is without care for pace or PBs. She believes running can simply be a means to connect with our peers and I totally agree. Today we have a wonderfully honest conversation talking about her own health issues with eating disorders during her teenage years, how bulimia and eating disorders in general are chronic conditions that need to be managed, and the importance of personal responsibility online as well as food and exercise as tools for health as well as harm. So please do check out runtalkrun.com if you're experienced in grant writing or fundraising, I think Jess would also welcome the opportunity to talk. I hope this is a useful contribution to mental health awareness week. I think rather than just talking about the problem, it's fascinating and so motivating to find initiatives that are actually providing genuine solutions to the issue. So please enjoy this conversation with Jess Robson.
Dr Rupy: I want to go back to how we were connected. I don't know whether it was someone who sent me a message on Instagram or we were actually like email connected. I literally can't remember. Can you jog my memory?
Jess Robson: Yeah, so it was one of the Run Talk Run leaders, Julia. She said she knew you through a friend at uni maybe. I'm not sure. Something like that. But yes, Julia.
Dr Rupy: Okay, cool. I literally can't remember. It must have been like months ago now, but I always like reflect on how I get to meet such interesting, creative people in the world and it's sometimes it's through social media, other times it's through like a random connection that you have through your network and stuff. So it's always nice to like be reminded of why it's useful to be on different social platforms, even though they can be at the detriment to your mental health and wellbeing. Sometimes they can actually be to the betterment of everything, including your networking.
Jess Robson: Yeah, they are good tools for connection in small doses or if used correctly.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah. I'm a big fan of that concept. Everything has its dose, right? Whether it's healthy eating, water, conversation, as well as things like social media as well and how much time we dedicate to things. So yeah. Why don't you we start off by you telling us your story about how you got into running, but perhaps a bit before that too.
Jess Robson: The context around why I got into running starts earlier anyway. I have sort of been up and down with my mental health throughout my childhood, but very much into my teenage years. And I think where I didn't wasn't educated on how to cope with the intensity of my emotions, at about 13, 14, I developed an eating disorder as my sort of way of deciding how I was going to cope with it. I looked at all the extroverted girls and they looked chatty, they looked happy, and the one thing they all had in common was that they were very slim. So in my head, I equated happiness to slimness. But obviously my eating disorder didn't really do me any favours, it didn't make me any happier. And as I sort of moved to Oxford to study, I wanted to partake in all the student activities, which included drinking, and realised very quickly then that not keeping my food down and bulimia was holding me back from living life as a student in the way that I wanted to. So I started running, actually from a very negative bulimic head space of, okay, if I'm not going to be bringing my food up, I will run instead. Running will be my way of staying slim. So whilst it started from that very poor head space, it quickly actually became the one thing that really built my self-esteem and pulled me out of that self-loathing and anxiety that I'd sort of carried with me pretty much my whole life. So yeah, I started running at 19 and it's been an up and down relationship since, but it has been a constant.
Dr Rupy: And so between that period of um, between 13 did you say that you felt that you may have started your eating disorder habits?
Jess Robson: Mhm.
Dr Rupy: Between that time and 19, were you, were you doing excessive exercise? Were you running at all? Was it not until 19 when you were at university that you actually started?
Jess Robson: No, so I didn't do much exercise at all as a teenager. I was really socially anxious and absolutely hated anything that put me in the limelight and sports and PE were definitely things that I felt very conscious of and hated being the one to bat and would do anything to avoid sports. So no, it was a very clear cut distinction between controlling my food has changed to excessive exercise. They didn't really come hand in hand.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah. And and just before we go further, I just want to um, ask you a simple question about how you feel about talking about eating disorders today in the context of you having such a long period of your life where you had an unhealthy relationship with it.
Jess Robson: Yeah, and it's something that I have to manage still to this day. Whilst I wouldn't sort of say that I'm bulimic to this day, if I go through a period of stress or I hit a low point in my life, and they do come up often, I'm a sensitive girl, it's well, the bulimic thoughts very quickly start creeping in, slowly at first, but then they build and build and I notice them. So for me, it's a case of managing those thoughts. So I feel comfortable talking about bulimia now because the behaviours feel like a long time ago, but the thoughts are still very present.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah. So in a lot of ways, this is truly a chronic condition, one that has to be managed throughout the rest of your life. I mean, you can get more comfortable with it, once you've overcome it, you have tools, but this is something that can still rear its head depending on your situation.
Jess Robson: Yeah, I guess hangovers from living with it for so long. I get a lot of decision overwhelm. I absolutely hate supermarkets. Making decisions around food is a nightmare for me. So I guess in some ways it is still sort of present in my life, but it's very much a case of taking care of myself and those thoughts.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah. Okay. Let's talk about your running journey then. So you went to university, you got into running, you get access to, I mean, university for me, I mean it was like 20 years ago now for me, but you know, I remember those feelings of community and feeling welcome and connection with a whole bunch of people with similar interests and stuff. What was that like for you when it came to running and when did it turn into something that was part of your treatment, I guess?
Jess Robson: It's a good question because I was very much a solo runner when I started running in Oxford. I was very embarrassed at how unfit I was. And so would never run with company back then. However, I still felt the power of the running community despite doing it on my own. I think where I'd spent my entire teenage years identifying only as bulimic Jess or just struggling with identity generally, suddenly when I started running consistently, it helped me identify as something really positive and I found my sense of belonging in that way, despite not hanging out with any runners. I still felt that that sense of community. And it helped with the social anxiety as well because it gave me something to talk about. A new, as soon as you start talking about running, you find other runners.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah. I've heard that about a few sports, but running in particular, you know, there are certain interest groups and sports where you just end up talking endlessly about it. You know, you can get really into the technicalities, the gear, the terrain, you know, the best time of day, fuelling, all that kind of stuff. And I and I guess food is a very important part of those conversations. And was that something again because of your journey up to that point that you were uncomfortable talking about with other runners perhaps?
Jess Robson: I think in the very early days, yes, I didn't like to talk about food at all. It was very triggering for me. I think even to this day, talking about food is just not my favourite topic of conversation really. But I think running in itself did help me develop a much healthier relationship with food. I saw it as a means of fuelling as opposed of a means of punishment or binging. It took on a different meaning. So it helped in that sense.
Dr Rupy: Yeah. And you know, it's really interesting you say that because I mean, first off, like with my social media as well, I actively encourage people to unfollow me who might have an unhealthy relationship with healthy eating because all I do on my podcast and my social is talk about food and you know, the different colours and the benefits and you know, the joyousness of food and stuff. So for people who were in a similar position to you, perhaps, you know, when you were a teenager, this is definitely not the right environment for them. You mentioned something about fuelling and now for a lot of people, that might be a negative thing to associate food with. This is just fuel and that's why I'm going to go down the track of counting calories and macros and making sure I'm getting X amount of, you know, certain nutrients. Whereas for you, it was something that was quite liberating, I guess, right? You were actually looking at it in a different way. Instead of punishing yourself with food, you're rewarding yourself with food. And the vernacular, I think for one person means something completely different for another.
Jess Robson: 100%. I feel this a lot because I've since running have also got into strength training and viewing food as fuel has taken away the sort of emotional side of food, which for me was quite important. I think where I'd experienced such intense emotions and such intense anxiety around food, actually removing all of that and seeing my porridge as a means of lifting well later in the morning or running well later in the day, it just, yeah, it helped me a lot to sort of dissociate the feelings around food.
Dr Rupy: Yeah. I'm glad we're having this conversation. The reason why I say that is because I think particularly on social media, we're entering a new era where there are rules around what things you can say about food because for fear of shaming or for fear of making certain people uncomfortable, which I totally understand. However, one person's way of talking about food might be wholly appropriate for them, but might be inappropriate for someone else. And I always tell the story about this um, this chap, middle-aged chap who came in and I was chatting to him about his weight and stuff and because he'd come to me saying, you know, I want to lose weight and stuff. And he said to me using his language, he was like, I know what I need to do. I need to clean up my diet. I just need to eat clean, I need to get rid of the crap, I need to do this and all that kind of stuff. I have a plan, I'm going to do it and you know, I want to see my blood results improve and all the rest of it. Now the social media side of me is like, oh my god, he's used the word clean, you know, can't say clean, what if he spirals into eating disorder. But for that person in that moment of their life, it is really appropriate for him. That's how he wants to describe it. And so I think, you know, we need to allow ourselves the space to describe food in a way that's appropriate for oneself whilst being mindful of not allowing that to spiral into things like negative self-image or spiralling into shame around food. So a bit of a tangent from what I wanted to talk to you about, but I think it's a really good point and that's that's maybe think of that.
Jess Robson: It's a really fine line and I feel the same when I talk about exercise online as well is that me running most days works for me, but that would be very unhealthy for someone else if that's not what's right for them. Um, especially when I talk about running as my means of recovering from bulimia. That's is very grey area. Um, and I have to be mindful of that when I talk about it.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, it's a really good point. I think both exercise and food in that in that arena because they can be used as tools of harm, when you talk about it, you have to be mindful of people who could be using it in an inappropriate way. So I totally agree with you on that point.
Jess Robson: I think I feel like on social media you have to caveat everything or give a little justification as to, well, this is what I do for me because XYZ. Yeah, it's quite tedious, but I think it's necessary.
Dr Rupy: I agree with you. I think it is tedious, yet necessary. But um, the other thing that I'm trying to champion is people taking responsibility for their digital environment in the same way you take responsibility for your home environment. Like for me, and this is just me, I know that I can't keep junk food in the house because I have quite low thresholds to for cravings and stuff. So I know I can't have like sweets and cookies and stuff because I love that stuff. And if I keep it in the house, I'll just eat it all day long. Whereas if I allow myself to indulge every now and then outside where I'm in, you know, at a picnic or a restaurant, yeah, of course I'm going to have it. But if I keep it in the house, you know, it will allow, you know, spiral me into unhealthy eating habits over the long term. And so I think in the same way, we need to be mindful of our digital environment and make sure that we unfollow or we curate that that space where we spend a large amount of our time to one that serves us rather than one that could be at the detriment of our mental and physical health.
Jess Robson: That's so right. And I think it is absolutely impossible to be non-triggering to everyone. Like it's just not possible. I could post pictures of a puppy and that might be triggering to someone who's recently lost their dog. You just don't know what your post might be triggering to someone else. And I think if you lived your life censoring everything, then you wouldn't post anything. So there is a level of personal responsibility over what you follow and assessing whether it's right for you.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So tell me about Run Talk Run because I'm I'm fascinated in the concept. I think it it it lends itself to one of these things that we should as medical practitioners be aware of for social prescription means, but I think the power in this organization that you're creating from scratch, I think it has real, real potential for for massive impact as it already is.
Jess Robson: Thank you. Yeah, um, it's about three and a half years old now and I'm I'm so proud of how much it's grown and developed, um, especially considering it started very, very small. Yeah, we're very much about normalising conversations on mental health and making making that and movement more accessible. I started it October 2017, um, after a year of really struggling with my mental health. Um, I was sort of doing the tick box exercises. I was taking my antidepressants, I was going to professional therapy, but I really struggled to be vulnerable in therapy. I struggled to sit in my seat and open up. It was like I became very socially anxious again and shut down. But when I was running, it was like things would just tumble out of my mouth without meaning to. So that's why Run Talk Run started. I wanted to recreate that space that I'd found in running where it was suddenly a lot easier to talk about heavy stuff. Uh, so I started a weekly 5 km gentle jog, um, outside Monument station, London. I'd put myself outside that station sort of week on week and gently advertised it as a safe space to come and chat. Um, I'd say for the first six months, I wasn't sure if it was ever going to last. I'd say 50% of the time I was joined by someone, but the rest of the time I'd end up doing that weekly jog on my own. So yeah, about six months in, it started to build momentum and we started having a consistent little bubble of runners that did come along every week. And it has just grown and blossomed from there. Um, the conversation doesn't always go really heavy, but just having a space to say, I'm having a really bad day or my boss um, said something really horrible earlier. Like those little conversations, I think do have an accumulative impact.
Dr Rupy: So the first thing I think of when you describe that is me running and when I run, I struggle to talk at the same time. So, so I'm imagining this is at a very gentle pace where you can actually have like, you know, half sentences when you're when you're when you're breathing to perform the exercise, right?
Jess Robson: Absolutely. It's very gentle conversational pace. Um, and we're open for all abilities as well. So even if you came along and had to walk a bit, we're very relaxed about that. We really don't look at our watches at a Run Talk Run. We don't care what what pace we run. So it's gentle enough.
Dr Rupy: Yeah. And this is this is not about PBs, this is about, you know, having a safe space and and people talking about. I mean, how big are how big are the groups themselves? Are they limited?
Jess Robson: So they vary in size. I'd say on average, the groups are between sort of five and 15 participants. Yeah, I'd say the smaller groups are my favourite. They're the most intimate and it's easier to have uh, those heavier conversations, I think in a smaller group setting. So we try not to let them be too big. But yeah, it's it's very much a different vibe to a lot of the other sort of running groups, especially in London where I am. There are so many running groups, but back in 2017 when I was in a bad place, they just looked so intimidating because everyone going just looked so extroverted and happy and good vibes only. And I was feeling anything but good vibes only. So yeah, we try and create a gentler space than that.
Dr Rupy: It's a really good point you made there about the whole good vibes only um, uh, narrative, I guess. Um, because I mean, I definitely see that and and and again, I think it circles back to our conversation about what might be super beneficial for certain people and encouraging might be to the detriment of someone else. And I think when you are going to those groups, I used to play volleyball in in Brighton and I loved it because the kind of person that went to volleyball was someone who was quite extrovert, was quite fit, had a cheeky personality, there was a lot of banter and stuff and it was great for me, but that might have been quite intimidating for someone else who also wanted to play volleyball, but perhaps didn't fit that kind of like culture or that group or like yourself, you said you might have felt a bit intimidated by it. So I guess this is really fulfilling a need for that space for a lot of people. And I guess the way you're describing it, it's kind of like you just stumbled into it because of a need that you had from from your own experience.
Jess Robson: Yeah, so I mean, that summer, I keep going back to 2017. That summer when I was depressed, I was going home every weekend to Sussex, um, because that felt like safety. I would I would literally finish work on a Friday evening and hurry home to Sussex. And it was my mum that was dragging me out to run. And it was my mum come that October that said, Jess, you need to get yourself some running friends in London. Like, please get yourself some running friends because this is working for you. So that's when I started looking for the same space that I'd found running with mum. Um, but couldn't find it. So it was purposeful, but I never imagined it to serve so many people.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah. So it could have been called Run Talk Mum, I guess for a long time if she hadn't given you the impetus to go get some running mates.
Jess Robson: Yeah, she can take a lot of ownership for its creation, that's for sure.
Dr Rupy: Absolutely. So so tell me about it like now. So, you know, you started these groups, started in Monument station, um, what what are we looking at now in terms of your organization and the reach and the impact it's had?
Jess Robson: Yeah, so um, we now have Run Talk Run and Walk Talk Walk. Um, so in November last year, we started Walk Talk Walk because although we are a gentle running group, that's still not accessible for so many people. Um, and there were a lot of requests for having that same space at a walking pace. So we now have both. We have um, 150, we've just tipped over 150 groups uh, globally, all led by volunteers on a weekly basis. And what's blown my mind about it is the the number of people wanting to give up their time to host that space for people that want to be a pair of listening ears. That just amazes me. Um, not that I was ever dubious of how many kind people there were, but it's brought them to me and that's that's been fun.
Dr Rupy: So to be a volunteer to run a Run Talk Run in your area, let's say I wanted to be a Run Talk Run volunteer, not that I have the time to do anything extra at the moment, but if I if I did want to do, what was the process? Is there like a criteria? Are there certain things that I need to fulfill?
Jess Robson: So all of our run leaders are self-selected. So you would approach us about it. We rarely advertise. So if you're you were interested in starting a run, there's no waiting for an advert. You can reach out to us about it. We don't ask that you're qualified in anything. So it's where it's peer support, um, we don't expect one person to be more qualified than the rest to host those difficult conversations. You don't have to be a therapist, you don't have to be mental health first aid trained. It's it's peer-to-peer. We're all on the same level. And the same with like England athletic qualifications. It's it's okay. We're going for a group run, you know, it's everyone's on the same page. Um, so in that sense, there's no barriers. Um, but we can help you get that training if that's what you want. So drop us an email and then what would happen from there is we'd send you more information about the expectations, the commitment, what's involved. And if you're still interested, um, we'd set up a call and either myself or a regional leader would chat you through what it's like to lead a front talk run.
Dr Rupy: And what are the expectations? Are there certain things that you need to fulfill every single week? Is this like a monthly thing or like what kind of things do you need to do to qualify as a leader?
Jess Robson: So all of our groups take place on a weekly basis. Um, so I guess that in itself is quite a big commitment really. I mean, it's okay if you're on holiday or something like that, but generally speaking, the groups happen weekly and that is what helps the attendees so much, I feel. As much as it is about the running, it's also about the routine and the consistency and the scheduled self-care that people have in their diaries every week. So yeah, I'm I'm quite strict about them being weekly. Um, but I'd say that's the biggest commitment. The rest um, comes down to promoting your run. So if you want to spend time outside of that hour running, promoting your run. Gotcha. We can help you with that.
Dr Rupy: It sounds fantastic and I totally believe in the whole peer-to-peer network. Putting my devil's advocate on, um, hat on rather, I can imagine some people might have criticized you and the organization for actively creating a group which is there to talk about mental health issues where there isn't a qualified therapist or someone who can uh, mold or modulate a conversation in a way that might be beneficial for them and some people from the group might come to harm. Have you ever come across that criticism?
Jess Robson: Uh, yes. Yeah, we do. Um, not too frequently, thankfully, but I'd say like my answer to that is, we do have a mental health crisis on our hands and the only way I see us actually moving to a place where we don't have that crisis is if we start normalising having those conversations amongst our peers. If we normalise having those conversations with our running friends or our colleagues or our friends without qualifications, then we're moving closer to people feeling supported at all times, um, and not having to go to therapy to manage their mental health. Obviously, for some people, therapy, professional therapy is what's needed. And Run Talk Run doesn't claim to be therapy either. That's a huge element. As long as our participants know that we're not there to to counsel, we're just there to listen. That's that's a really important element.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, no, I completely agree. I think the way out of this crisis, and it is genuinely a crisis. I mean, I was looking at some some stats from the um, healthier nation index, which is a group of uh, surveyed Britons, around 8,000 people who answered some questions and I believe it was a third of people found that their mental health had worsened over the last 12 months. That's a third of people reflective of the UK. So you can imagine just how many people are going to be affected by this. And mental health services are already underfunded, so it's going to be exceptionally hard to cater or near, I would say impossible to cater for the mental health impact that's going to happen as a result of COVID, let alone before COVID as well. So I completely believe in the peer-to-peer model and like you said so eloquently, normalising the conversation around mental health with everyone, including your running friends, not just something that is in the medical realm. Um, it's super important. So so now you're at 150 groups, which is fantastic. And have you had any grant funding, any charitable donations, anything like that?
Jess Robson: Uh, no. So we we get the occasional sort of small donation from the participants or from, you know, like one-off donations, um, you know, never more than a grand, like little things, little bits that keep us ticking along. But no, we've been unfunded since we started and yeah, I'm just very, very grateful that we have a very committed team of volunteers that want to give up their time. Um, but no, nothing yet.
Dr Rupy: So you need to change that. Like, it's such an incredible organization, even more so now that, you know, you're breaking down barriers by introducing exercise, talking about mental health, you know, two tick boxes that the government should really be listening to, yet and you've done that without any funding whatsoever, not from Sport UK, not from Innovate, not from, you know, National Health Service charities, nothing like that. So that definitely needs to change.
Jess Robson: Yeah, don't get me wrong, I've tried in the past. Um, bid writing is not my forte, clearly. It's not gone to plan. But I find that when I focus my attention on the community itself rather than the how are we going to make money, that's when Run Talk Run's enjoyable and fulfilling and I give it my best when I'm focusing on that community stuff. So that'll be why I've not given my attention to the uh, the numbers and things like that.
Dr Rupy: Well, hopefully if there's anyone that's experienced in grant funding, um, bid writing or anything like that, they can reach out to you after this and try and give you a helping hand because what you've been able to achieve through a volunteer base and peer-to-peer networks is incredible. And we want to see that grow even more. I mean, there are a number of other organizations, I guess the one that comes to mind is um, parkrun, which have been phenomenally successful. Um, and I guess you're you're providing a service, um, which is unique, um, and and certainly scalable as well. Where where do you see the organization going over the next three to five years? I'm sure you've been asked this question a whole bunch of times before, so forgive me for asking it again.
Jess Robson: No, that's it's a good question. Like one question that I get asked is, what's the end goal for Run Talk Run? And I kind of laugh. It's like there's no end goal. There's always going to be need for mental health support. Like we'll always have brains, therefore we'll always need some support with them. It's just the way it is. My goal is to make mental health support more accessible. And so for me, that looks like more Run Talk Runs in more places. So just continuing um, the growth and setting up new runs in more places. I'd love to see it in more small towns and villages. You know, I feel like cities are very lucky. We there's already a lot of support in cities. I feel like I can say that. But in the smaller towns throughout the UK, um, and I saw this when I went home to Sussex, there's a bigger stigma for some reason. It's less, maybe it's just a little bit less progressive in terms of the conversation. And I feel like the support is needed in those smaller towns.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, definitely. I I think certainly in bigger cities across the UK, but probably no more um, than London in the UK at least, uh, wellness is is quite accessible for uh, people. I mean, depending on which borough you live in, quite frankly, actually, I should caveat with that. But um, uh, yeah, no, uh, I think those smaller towns, um, I used to work as a GP in um, in an area of Sussex. I can't remember whether I told you this or not. Um, I won't mention the GP surgery just in case, but uh, there was a, there was certainly a stigma around mental health, um, whenever broaching the subject sensitively with people, I found through my limited experience there of working there for about two years, um, it was quite a taboo subject compared to when I came to London. That could be reflective of the changing times during those different time periods, um, and how uh, better accepted a conversation around mental health is these days. Um, but certainly that was my experience and it might just be because of, you know, um, uh, a fear for people finding out, um, the sort of small town feel, um, maybe that's something to do with it. But no, I I definitely take that a point. And I totally see um, how Run Talk Run could become a proper global phenomenon because what you're doing there is combining the benefits of talking therapy with the benefits of exercise. And we know that exercise releases anti-inflammatory hormones and neurochemicals that improve synaptic plasticity. Um, and if you're combining that with conversation, it's no wonder that the conversation flows a bit better. So you're introducing movement into a into a peer-to-peer therapy session, which I think is is fantastic. Um, and maybe there's a research angle there as well, uh, where someone could actually uh, show the benefits of um, just talking uh, in a in a clinic environment versus talking in a running environment. And I know we have to be clear that you're not advertising yourselves as therapy, but I think there's definitely something in there.
Jess Robson: It's funny you should say that. We have one of our Run Talk Run leaders, um, studying for a PhD and is doing this research on Run Talk Run.
Dr Rupy: Really?
Jess Robson: Yeah. So there's um, yeah, hopefully some research coming uh, very soon. Um, but you're right, it is fascinating. I'd love to to actually see that as research and in and compare it, how much easier it is to talk whilst moving. It's good and I also feel like people are more inclined to set aside time to go for a 5k jog than they are inclined to set aside time to seek support for their mental health. So, you know, I you're kind of killing two birds with one stone, whereas sort of living in a time where everyone's very precious about how they spend their time. So if you can do both at the same time, it's a win.
Dr Rupy: It's an added benefit there. It's a productivity hack. You can combine a talking session with exercise. I love it. And I I definitely see the scope of an activity plus talking in a bunch of different arenas. I mean, we talked about walking, walk talk walk and run talk run, but you know, what about knit talk knit or paint talk paint or something, you know, something like that. I think there's loads of different uh, areas in which you can expand the brand, whatever that that looks and sounds like. But yeah, no, it's an epic idea and I can't wait to see how it grows.
Jess Robson: Thank you. Yeah, I'm excited. Um, yeah, we'll see. We'll see what groups pop up next.
Dr Rupy: Maybe there's a cook talk cook. I can't talk today because of my hay fever.
Jess Robson: Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. It's a bonus for mental health awareness week. Please do get involved and do check out runtalkrun.com.com. Run talk one, run talk run.com. You can tell I've got hay fever. Um, if you enjoyed the show, please do subscribe, give us a five star rating and share this with someone who needs to hear it as well. I wish you a wonderful day and I will see you here next time.
