Venetia: Fashion's one of the most polluting industries in the entire world and by 2050 it's set to be to give off a quarter of the world's carbon emissions. It's so damaging. And I thought, if I'm thinking about what's on my plate so intently and thinking about plastic, fashion's such a part of that. Because so much of our clothing is made from plastic often. So if you're thinking about that plastic water bottle that you're drinking from, you should be thinking about your clothes as well. And equally, if you're thinking about where your food's coming from, where are your clothes coming from and who's making them and how much are they being paid?
Dr Rupy: Welcome to the Doctor's Kitchen podcast with me, Dr Rupy. Now, today we're going to be talking about something a little bit off-piste. It's fashion and health. Now, this podcast idea really came about after I heard quite a heated debate on Radio 4 regarding fashion and its environmental impact. And I thought, who better to talk to about this than my friend Venetia Faulkner, who is a London-based producer, presenter, and host of the Talking Tastebuds podcast that I've actually featured on, and who's extremely passionate about mindful consumption and slow fashion. She's been featured discussing sustainable fashion on BBC World News, Radio 4, and Radio London, and you may have even seen Venetia on Tastemade where she makes delicious plant-based dishes and low-waste beauty products. Human health and environmental health are completely connected, and I think we're all slowly waking up to the realisation that our consumption, whether that be food, whether it be clothing or beauty products, is having an impact on our environment, which is having an impact on our human health. A number of years ago, the World Health Organisation published a report entitled Our Planet, Our Health. And actually, it talks about the maintenance and improvement of health being the centre of concern about environment and development. We really get into some difficult and tricky subjects here, talking about physical as well as mental health, FOMO culture, and the impact of going offline for 48 hours, which is something that Venetia has been doing over the past few months. You'll find the recipe video that I cooked for Venetia on the show on my YouTube channel, and you can check out thedoctorskitchen.com for all the show notes and the links to everything that we spoke about on the pod. Now, onto the pod. Anyway, I better get on cooking with you.
Venetia: Yeah, get cooking. Come on, Rupy.
Dr Rupy: I'm going to get. Okay, so I know you haven't been feeling well. I don't know if you want to tell people that, but.
Venetia: I'm an oversharer. I can tell people.
Dr Rupy: Okay, cool, cool. Um, so I'm going to make you a very complicated salad that I'm not expecting you to eat lots of, and I wouldn't recommend it. But it's going to be watercress and spinach with peas, mint, a little bit of basil from my lovely basil plant here, with some sun-dried tomatoes and peach. And these are in season right now. You'll see these everywhere in August, September, and they taste absolutely delicious, super sweet. So that's going to give a nice sweetness to counter the bitterness of the watercress leaves that, as you're probably aware, are very healthy. And it's vegan, which is. Yeah, and it's not too spicy because I was thinking about making you a curry. I was like, maybe I shouldn't.
Venetia: Yeah, maybe not. Yeah, I had a, I had a horrific 24-hour vomiting situation. It's absolutely debilitating when you get sick.
Dr Rupy: Terrible. Yeah. Yeah.
Venetia: And all of yesterday, I basically took yesterday to rest in bed. And anytime I laughed, I felt like I had done 10,000 sit-ups because my whole body had just been intent on getting everything out of my system. But I feel so much better today.
Dr Rupy: I've had the illness unfortunately many a time, being a doctor working in paediatrics and stuff. So I feel like I've gained a lot of resilience, but I don't want to tempt fate. So anyway, I'm going to get on with this. But Venetia, I'm so happy that you're here because, like I said, we'll get into what we're going to chat about, which is fashion and the impact of environmental health and how that's inextricably linked to human health. But why don't you tell the audience about what your journey has been and your incredible accounts that I absolutely love following. I'm really a big fan of the dancing, by the way.
Venetia: You are too kind.
Dr Rupy: I'm sure you get that a lot, but like, honestly, it's so good. I could literally watch you over and over again. How did she do the moves?
Venetia: Um, well, firstly, thanks for having me and thank you in advance for all the dark leafy greens. I'm a big fan of the DLGs.
Dr Rupy: The DLGs. You taught, I remember that on your podcast, the DLGs.
Venetia: I love a DLG. Um, so I started my career in television. I went to Warwick University and read English and film, and while I was there, I got kind of heavily involved in the TV and radio societies, had a couple of radio shows, and quickly decided that I wanted to go into the media when I graduated. So I spent all my time at university, in my university holidays, doing as much work experience as I possibly could at any film, TV, or radio company that would have me. And those kind of work experience and running jobs led me to placements. And then very fortunately, I ended up with an internship at MTV when I graduated from Warwick.
Dr Rupy: Where was MTV based back then?
Venetia: Camden, where it still is. It's part of Viacom, which owns Nickelodeon and Paramount films. It's huge. So I worked my way up there, had the most incredible time learning how to edit, learning how to shoot, learning how to interview, and inadvertently learning how to present and conduct interviews.
Dr Rupy: This is where you get your podcast skills from, I guess.
Venetia: Yeah, and actually everything I do now is kind of due to this experience. I worked my way up as a producer and then ended up kind of falling into, I always say falling into and then I have to correct myself. I say falling into presenting, but really I think I'd been honing my craft for quite a few years. So I started presenting a daily live show at 4Music, which is part of Channel 4. Um, produced and hosted that for about a year. So every day, two hours live on the telly, which was an incredible experience. Um, and then from there, I started hosting digital content for Tastemade. They're an online food and lifestyle platform. And kind of at that point figured out that really online is where it's at.
Dr Rupy: When was this?
Venetia: This, ooh, this would have been two years ago.
Dr Rupy: Okay, wow, okay.
Venetia: Um, or two, two and a half years ago, maybe. Um, and then started a YouTube channel from there where I could kind of talk about being vegan and my lifestyle as a vegan. And then, um, about six months after that, launched Talking Tastebuds, my platform. I wanted to create a space where 16-year-old me would feel better about food and health. I had a disordered relationship with food when I was at school. Um, and just didn't know what I should be doing. And I wanted to kind of interview people who knew a lot of things and had good relationships with food and well-being and mental health to kind of put a positive message out there.
Dr Rupy: How did you, sorry to interrupt, but how did you, how did you feel that you got into that sort of way of thinking, the disordered eating back then when you were a teenager? Because it's very, I mean, I think we're getting better at recognising it as physicians, but certainly there appears to be a wave of, you know, more teenagers having an issue with dieting culture.
Venetia: Yeah. So I have suffered with anxiety since I was a little girl. So I think I'm kind of prone to anxiety and as a way of coping with my anxiety, I can be quite controlling, and I find schedules and kind of routine very comforting. And then I had lived at home until I was 16, and at 16, I started boarding, and I was at an all-girls boarding school, and that's quite a high-pressure environment. And it was a mixture of things, really. I started partying in London with people who were older than me, prettier than me, thinner than me. And I was also at a kind of very high-powered school with lots of female energy around me, and it was very competitive. And I think I just wanted to gain control because suddenly my felt out of whack with my body because I was on the pill, I suddenly put on weight after being very, very slim for my entire life. And I think it was just lots of things that happened. I always talk about it with my mum because she was the person who really helped me heal from it and kind of got me on the right route again. And we kind of came to the conclusion that even if I hadn't moved away from home and started boarding, it would have happened at some point, whether that was in my early 20s or mid-20s. I think it just would have happened anyway. I think it was kind of unavoidable due to so many factors. Fortunately, it never got so bad that, you know, it was out of, out of control. But I'm just so grateful for it because it, it kind of, it meant that I had to fall back in love with food again. And it, and in turn, that's kind of led me to do everything that I'm doing now. But it's such a, I'm really grateful for it now, but it, it does, it really pains me when I see people or hear from people who are going through a similar thing or worse, often worse, because I, I kind of only, I didn't get too deep into it, fortunately. But it's, I think as a female, you know, when we're inundated with so much kind of nonsense from the media, I think it can be really hard to avoid.
Dr Rupy: Absolutely. And I think it's really refreshing actually to hear someone look back on their experiences with a positive outlook because I think, and it takes time for you to get to that point, I think, where you can look back and think that experience is actually what made me today. This is the reason why I have a YouTube channel, or the reason why I'm able to positively influence so many other people in a similar situation. And even those who are not in similar situations can still sort of gain, um, uh, a positive, um, impact from what you're doing.
Venetia: Thank you.
Dr Rupy: No worries. I'm just going to quickly go back to this recipe. Whatever people have been hearing, unless you're watching on YouTube, you can see this. But, um, I've chopped up some peaches. Uh, I've added some of the cooked, um, peas here. I've actually cooked these from raw, but you can even use frozen peas. They just thaw and then they're, they're easy and they've still got that lovely bite to them. A little bit of, um, fresh basil, uh, some fresh mint that I've just chopped up with the oily, um, sun-dried tomatoes. I'm not going to give you too much of this. I'm going to give you some steamed potatoes, but you can try a little taste of this. I'm just going to mix this up and this is going to be the flavour base for everything. Um, and as you're probably aware, I'm a big fan of just getting as much variety and as many different types of plants as possible into people's diets because this is super key to health. And we could talk about all these different things individually, but really, the reality of the situation is is that we don't know that much about the complexity of plants and we like to sort of like single out resveratrol or carotenoids in tomatoes or, you know, the plant proteins you'll find in peas and that kind of stuff. But really, it's a lot bigger than that. There's like thousands of different chemicals that we put in here, um, and they're interacting with our complex bodies. So, um, variety, colours, plant focus, that's the key.
Venetia: I love that.
Dr Rupy: Yeah.
Venetia: Can I quickly tell you about the fun fact I learned about basil this week, which you may or may not know?
Dr Rupy: Go for it. Go for it.
Venetia: I don't know if anyone else is dealing with this problem, but I currently have a fruit fly issue in my kitchen.
Dr Rupy: I often get that in the studio here, yeah.
Venetia: So annoying, so many fruit flies, especially when the fruit is so delicious at this time of year.
Dr Rupy: Absolutely.
Venetia: And one way to combat this fruit fly situation is to, what I used to do, fill a glass with some apple cider vinegar, put some cling film on, cling film on top, plastic wrap if you're American, pierce that cling film with a knife, and then said fruit flies will fly into apple cider vinegar and die. Now, obviously, cling film, not planet-friendly. Killing fruit flies in such a way, again, not vegan. So my way to combat this is to just have a basil plant and it keeps them away from all the fruit.
Dr Rupy: Really?
Venetia: Yeah. Did I teach you something?
Dr Rupy: Yeah, absolutely. I had no idea about that.
Venetia: There you go.
Dr Rupy: Wow. Okay. It's good, it's a good feeling to know that you've taught Rupy something. Let me tell you that.
Venetia: Oh, that's great. I mean, I learn things all the day, every day from, from patients, from people like yourself. Like, yeah, we're always in a constant state of learning.
Dr Rupy: Good. Yeah, that's good.
Venetia: That's amazing. I'm definitely going to look that up. It's kind of like, um, how I use bananas to ripen everything, like, whether it be avocados or, actually, I don't know if people know that. Like, you know, putting bananas in a brown paper bag with your under-ripe avocados that are super frustrating. Um, and then it speeds up the ripening process. I think it's from ethylene. Yeah.
Dr Rupy: Love that.
Venetia: Anyway, back to the dish at hand. I'm just going to mix this all together with the spinach leaves and the watercress here. Um, I'm going to add, um, I'm actually going to add the potatoes that I'm going to serve you, uh, in a bit, um, to this as well, just to sort of add some bulk. But if you wanted more sort of plant-based protein in this, you could add cooked chickpeas, uh, you could add broad beans. Um, I'm a really big fan of ful right now. You know ful, the Iraqi dish? Well, it's a Middle Eastern dish.
Dr Rupy: How do you spell this?
Venetia: Ful is F-U-L.
Dr Rupy: No, what is it?
Venetia: The full name is ful medames, which is M-E-D-A-M-E-S. And it's basically, it's kind of like a Middle Eastern pesto. You start off with garlic, salt, lemon, and mint, and you bash that together, like really heavy on the lemon juice, so you've got like a bit of a mixture. And then you add cooked, uh, broad beans to that in the cooking liquor. So you cook it overnight, it takes about eight hours. And then you add chickpeas to that, and you mix that all together, and then you top it with even more fresh herbs, raw onion, like finely diced, and then you serve it with like wholemeal bread or sourdough bread or like flat. Yeah, yeah, exactly. You just go in with it. It's incredible. Yeah. So, I don't know how we got onto that.
Dr Rupy: The dream.
Venetia: Uh, you wanted to add more, that was a way of adding more plant-based protein.
Dr Rupy: Exactly. Yes, yeah, yeah. Thanks. I'm losing my own train of thought.
Venetia: This looks so good.
Dr Rupy: Oh, good. I don't want you to go too heavy on this, so, you know, a little taste for you. I'm just going to go in with the potatoes. So all I've done with these potatoes, um, I'm a really big fan of these. I know, they're like, they're like roast potatoes, right? Simple, uh, new potatoes that I've steamed for about eight, nine minutes, smashed, as in just with the back of a pan or a back of a large spoon, olive oil into the oven, salt, pepper, and then it roasts for about 15 minutes at high heat. And then you get this gorgeous sort of crispy potato. I mean, look at that. I mean, that's quite nice. All right, so that's going to go in here. I'm going to throw a few in here.
Venetia: Oh, I know.
Dr Rupy: This looks amazing.
Venetia: Good, good.
Dr Rupy: And so quick as well.
Venetia: Yeah, yeah, super quick. I mean, I always have, actually, that's one trick. I always have like steamed potatoes in my fridge because A, um, when you cool down the potatoes, you form a resistant starch, which is even better for your gut bacteria. And B, it just means you've always got like a good sort of like carbohydrate, something to like boost your, um, your meal up, um, to make it a little bit more satisfying and filling.
Dr Rupy: Lovely.
Venetia: And then I'm just going to pop this on top here. This looks so good. Good. All right. Move that to one side. This is for you. And you can take one of these forks.
Dr Rupy: Oh, wow.
Venetia: Something that isn't toast. Am I eating it now or am I waiting for you?
Dr Rupy: Oh, yeah, you can have a try. Give it a try.
Venetia: Okay, I'm going to try and get a bit of everything. Get some peach, get some DLG. Get some potato. Oh, that's a big guy. Mmm. Mmm.
Dr Rupy: Good?
Venetia: So good.
Dr Rupy: Good. I'm so glad.
Venetia: Tastes like summer.
Dr Rupy: Yeah.
Venetia: It actually does.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, I mean, it's got loads of like, you know, summery ingredients. You've got the, the watercress and the peach and some hazelnuts in there.
Venetia: I didn't. Yeah, it's got lots of different levels.
Dr Rupy: It's like so easy. You just like combine ingredients together and, yeah. The potato as well.
Venetia: Good. It's so hard to do this without a knife.
Dr Rupy: Don't worry. I'm not going to make you eat all of it.
Venetia: I will though. I'll happily eat all of it.
Dr Rupy: I'm sure you will, but I'm going to actually stop you because I'm worried. So, yes, I'm going to give you some steamed potatoes instead.
Venetia: How was your lunch?
Dr Rupy: Yeah, it was so delicious and I really wanted to eat all of it. And then once I'd had the potatoes, I started to feel a little bit queasy. Um, and I just thought I can't have any. I really, it was so delicious and I wish I, I hate not being, I always finish what's on my plate.
Venetia: It's all right, you've got some Tupperware. I've got some Tupperware. We'll take it home. You're going home. When you've, yeah, exactly. When you feel a bit better, you can, uh.
Dr Rupy: No food waste.
Venetia: Exactly.
Dr Rupy: Yeah. It's really weird though. It's so, it's so weird waiting for your body to come back to life.
Venetia: Oh yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You've got to, like, you know, you've got to think you've had a vomiting illness, your microbes have shifted because that can happen over a short, very short space of time. Your acidity levels are different, the way you respond to food is going to be different. And this is why, like, one of the issues, sorry to go off topic here, but like, one of the issues I have about dieting culture is because they assume that there is one way of eating regardless of who you are, what your background is, whatever. Whereas in reality, the different requirements for food can change from day to day, from month to month, from male to female, to different stages in your life, emotions, culture.
Venetia: And as a female, your cycle too, right?
Dr Rupy: Exactly. Yeah, absolutely. And I don't think we have enough evidence to suggest that, you know, on day seven or day 14 or whatever sort of proportion of your cycle that you're going through, you should be eating different things. But one thing I have noticed is that those who carbohydrate restrict have issues with menstruation. And I think carbohydrates are a very, very necessary part of, um, of a, of a healthy menstrual system. Um, there's a reason why you're craving at certain times or why women crave say chocolate or potatoes and that kind of stuff. So your body is intuitively trying to tell you something. And if you restrict it, you know, you're not doing a good thing.
Venetia: It's just so important to tune in, isn't it? And to kind of really get used to what your body wants.
Dr Rupy: Absolutely. And speaking of tuning in. So I was, I was tuning in to Radio 4 a few, a few months ago now. I was on my way back from a nutritional medicine masters actually. And I was listening to a debate, uh, it's a moral maze. I'll link to it in the show notes. Um, between a whole bunch of people and different viewpoints about the environmental impact of fashion, specifically they were talking about fast fashion, but I think fashion per se has a responsibility towards the environment. And what I'm interested in, and I think it's probably interesting for the listening audience for the Doctor's Kitchen and everything I do is the impact of, uh, environmental, um, issues and human health. But I know this is something that's been close to your heart for a while now. So I wanted to get your perspective on things and how you went and transitioned from say being more conscious about your food to being more conscious about the environment and how that kind of goes full circle.
Venetia: So I, um, started sharing my daily food habits as a vegan on YouTube. Uh, I did lots of what I eat in a day videos and I was also doing recipes for Tastemade, vegan recipes for Tastemade. And someone said, oh, it's great that you're vegan and you're and you're looking at your plate in this way, but you're wearing lots of fast fashion. You know, I came from hosting a daily live TV show where I just wanted to have the hottest, freshest, trendiest looks every day and never wear the same thing twice. Um, and also there's that pressure that comes with social media if you kind of, you're not supposed to wear the same outfit on social media twice, or that's what I thought. And so I did some research into fast fashion. Um, I watched the True Cost documentary on Netflix.
Dr Rupy: Oh my god, I love that documentary. That's one of the, uh, triggers for me to think about minimalism and and what I was consuming, uh, just before I think I got into food, uh, as much as I am now. But yeah, no, I'm so glad you mentioned that.
Venetia: So good. Such a good documentary, would really recommend it. And also at the same time, I watched the minimalist documentary. Uh, started listening to all of their podcasts. Also watched, um, read Marie Kondo's, uh, tidying up book. Just all of this stuff I, I was going through a breakup and I had a lot of time on my hands. And I just did this kind of full deep dive into researching how to live with less and also the negative implications that come with supporting fashion as an industry. And, uh, I kind of, I'm very much an all or nothing person. You know, I'm vegan and I go, I, I, I'm low waste. And once I learn about something, when I first learned about being zero waste, and I was talking to a woman, and she was telling me about her low waste lifestyle, and I was like, don't tell me any more because I know that if I know more, I'll go the full hog and I'm not ready for that. And I really wasn't at the time. So I know that I just, I'm all or nothing. And once I'd learned about the fashion industry, I thought, right, I can't be a part of this anymore. And one day, I was at home and I was wearing an old jumper, which I loved. And I thought, oh, okay, I'll put this on Instagram and make a point of saying that I've worn this multiple times. And I came up with a hashtag which is #OOTD. It kind of goes against the hashtag OOTD. So OOTD is like the original fashion hashtag on Instagram and it stands for outfit of the day. So outfit of the day implies you have an outfit of the day, a new outfit of the day every day. And I was like, screw this, here's my middle finger, I'm going to do old outfit of the day. And it just kind of caught on. And now I have people sharing their old outfits of the day using this hashtag every single day, multiple times. And there seems a real kind of interest in slow fashion and and celebrating what we already have. Fashion's one of the most polluting industries in the entire world. And by 2050, it's set to be to give off a quarter of the world's carbon emissions. It's so damaging. And I thought, if I'm thinking about what's on my plate so intently and thinking about plastic, fashion's such a part of that. Because so much of our clothing is made from plastic often. So if you're thinking about that plastic water bottle that you're drinking from, you should be thinking about your clothes as well. And equally, if you're thinking about where your food's coming from, where are your clothes coming from and who's making them and how much are they being paid?
Dr Rupy: Well, this is sort of the reason why I decided to get you on and talk about it because, uh, it's kind of hypocritical for me to be talking about the impact of food and lifestyle on health without really recognising the environmental impact on and how that leads to a cost to human health as well. I think Attenborough and, uh, other people, yourself included, have really brought this to our attention about, you know, how plastic can impact, um, the, uh, the quality of, um, products that we find in the sea and and, um, the environment and everything else. But at the same time, it would be irresponsible and negligent for me to not bring up the topic. So, I think I suppose you could divide this into sort of, um, physical issues and and mental issues because clothing, like food, there's a lot of emotional connection behind it, right?
Venetia: Definitely. Clothes are such an amazing way for us to express ourselves. And as a lover of vintage clothes myself, this skirt that I'm wearing is vintage and I, when I found it, I, it's a great skirt, by the way.
Dr Rupy: Thank you so much. It's a recent purchase.
Venetia: Thank you. And when I find a vintage piece that I love, I start thinking about what's come before it, the story that's come before it, who's worn it, what was this woman like. And to me, everything is energy. It sounds very woo-woo and I apologise for that, but everything is energy. And clothes carry energy. And how wonderful to be able to wear clothes that have been passed down from people in your family because it's a way to kind of take forward this energy. And equally, if the people who have made your clothes have been treated fairly and paid a, paid a fair wage, I see it as all kind of you're, you're supporting that and you're giving back to that. Um, and yeah, you know, we remember the outfits of, of important stages of our lives. We remember what we wore maybe on our 21st birthday or on our wedding day, maybe to someone's funeral. You know, this stuff, it carries emotion, it carries weight. So clothes are such an important way for us to express ourselves and I think we shouldn't underestimate their power. And I'm not going to sit here and say, you know what, go naked, don't consume, because that's not realistic. But I think we have to be conscious about all of our decisions. And for me, that is food, clothes, relationships, digital content, how much time I spend doing whatever, whatever I'm spending my time doing, that is a decision and all of that has a chain of events that came before it.
Dr Rupy: You've got a great way of, I think, of injecting a lot of humour into what you put out there digitally, um, without seeming too preachy, without seeming too sort of, you know, patronising. You've got a great way of sort of like marrying the message with something that's actually quite engaging. I remember you did this thing, um, it was in response to the, the one pound bikini. I think, I think it was brilliant. I've got to link it up in the show. It was brilliant. It's so super funny. Um, but that kind of makes you think, right? I used to be the kind of person that would walk into H&M or Zara and just pick up, you know, shirts because they're so cheap. And I actually, I remember I used to get a whole bunch of them because I was working as a junior doctor and, uh, obviously like, if you've got a 20 pound shirt, the last thing you want to do is spend 5 pounds dry cleaning it. And it's, it's of such poor quality that it's going to like rip or it's going to tear or whatever. And I would just consume it. And then it was until I watched True Cost that I realised actually how this is having a damaging effect on, on the environment, let alone sort of like my throwaway sort of culture.
Venetia: So fast fashion has led us to believe that clothes, cheap clothing is the kind of baseline for what we, that fast fashion has led us to believe that those, the price of that clothing is the true cost of that clothing. When really, when something's so cheap that you can only have to wear it once, someone's not being paid or treated fairly further down the line or earlier on in the line. And I definitely think that I should acknowledge that I'm in a real position of privilege. I have the time and the money to be able to spend, um, the money that I want to spend on the clothes that I find, and I have the time to look for clothes that really align with my ethos. I really accept my privilege there. However, it's not right that big fast fashion brands like Zara, like H&M, like Pretty Little Thing, like Missguided, like Boohoo, are selling bikinis for one pound. That's not okay. Really, it's about getting back to the root of all of this. When our parents' generation were growing up before fast fashion really, really hit, they wouldn't buy that much. When they did, it would be of a good quality. They would look after it. They would mend it when it broke. They would accept hand-me-downs. They'd have a winter wardrobe, which they'd put away when the summer came and vice versa, which is a really good hack actually. Um, because then your wardrobe feels fresh when you get to, when you get to autumn or when you get to spring. It's about getting back to the root of everything. It's about slowing consumption because we're kind of completely out of whack with how much we're consuming. And it's a really hard thing to do, I think, because retail therapy is a thing. That hit of dopamine that we get when we buy something new is probably scientifically proven.
Dr Rupy: Oh yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
Venetia: But I believe that you can still get that hit of dopamine from something second-hand or vintage or potentially if you rent something or you loan something or you swap something.
Dr Rupy: Absolutely. Yeah.
Venetia: That's where I think we need to be headed. And I think it's where we are headed as well.
Dr Rupy: I think there's, there's like two common arguments I get, uh, in in defence of fashion in general, fast fashion in particular. The democratization of fashion. So the fact that people who aspire to look or feel like Beyoncé or like, you know, one of their aspirational stars or whatever, have the ability to at a very, uh, low financial cost to them, regardless of the environmental cost. And the other thing is, um, if you take away fast fashion, you are essentially depriving a community who otherwise wouldn't have, uh, a financial, um, a financial path, um, that sort of industry. Um, what, what are, I mean, I, I know, I, I'm totally against those two things, but like, what kind of, how, how do you tackle that subject yourself?
Venetia: It's a really tricky one because I come at this from a position of privilege. So it's really easy for me to preach in this way. But unfortunately, you can't take away from the fact that the people producing this, these garments are being paid about a dollar a day. They're having to wear adult nappies because time is money and they can't afford to go to the loo because it means that they won't be able to make 100 garments that day. And also, we're in a state of climate breakdown. What's more important? This is the problem of our, of our lifetime, right? Like we can't escape the fact that we are in a real, real dire situation. And it's not really about looking like Kim Kardashian at this point. There's, we have bigger fish to fry for want of a better phrase. And to me, nothing is more important than that. And I think with thanks to the second-hand economy, places like Depop, which are really accessible, and eBay, and, um, rental, rental shops like rent the high, high, rent the high street, I think it's called. There are accessible platforms for people with a lower income where they can afford to look like their celebrity crush at a more accessible price point.
Dr Rupy: Yeah. It's a hard one though.
Venetia: It's super hard. Yeah, because I think like at the moment, I think everyone listening to this is probably going to be in a position of privilege where we can actually afford to make those decisions given our new sort of insight into how destructive fashion can be on the environment and thus human health. We'll get onto that in a second. Um, but at the same time, it's like we're probably that 10% if that. How do you actually change the, uh, impact of the 90% of the population that don't really care? And unfortunately, there's a lot of people out there. And because they have far greater issues than the choice of where they get their fruits and veggies from, their clothing from, you know, it doesn't matter that they have like, I mean, we have 4 million people in the UK still relying on food banks. And I don't think a lot of people appreciate that. So it's got to be from a higher level. And I'm, I'm not like a fan of the nanny state, and I'm not a fan of like government, uh, um, imposition, but there has to be a breaking point where corporate social responsibility does take precedent.
Venetia: So there was, there's something that happens every year called the Copenhagen Fashion Summit. And it's basically a way for big companies like H&M to try and prove that they're doing good. But the takeaway from the summit this year was that we're not going to change consumerism, unfortunately. That was the big takeaway. So that, that would argue that the, the things that someone like a company like Zara are doing, which is promising to be fully sustainable, um, by 2025, is the way that things should go. However, I, I'm still not willing to support those companies. I don't think that no matter how, if you're, even if you're creating clothing made from fruit pulp, if you're still churning out that much product, to me that's not sustainable. We have enough clothes in the world. There are 7 billion people on the planet right now, yet we produce nearly 100 million, 100 billion pieces of clothing a year. That is, there's such a discrepancy in that when you think about all the garments that are already in existence. I think it's about demanding change from our governments. However, unfortunately, all of the kind of propositions that were put forward, um, to do with fashion this year to our government, I think pretty much all of them got rejected. There was supposed to be a new tax put on, um, put on clothing, and yeah, it was rejected. It's really disheartening actually. There's such a, um, discrepancy. On the one hand of the spectrum, there seems to be such a heightened interest in the circular economy. Um, and I see a new 18-year-old, uh, fashion blogger on my feed every day doing amazing things with upcycling old clothes and and really preaching this story better than I, better than I am. Really cute girls. And then on the other hand, you have our government who seemingly don't really give a toss. It's a really tricky one. Sometimes I feel really positive about it and sometimes I feel like what, what am I, why am I even bothering?
Dr Rupy: It's quite a hard position to be in, I think, as an influencer yourself, because we have colleagues that, uh, are perhaps in a position of, or they are in a position of power, yet they are sort of purposely blind or willfully blind to the fact that they're promoting fast fashion, whether that be, uh, a gym brand, whether that be, you know, um, uh, a fashion brand. And the reality is we are bombarded with images of fashion when we're on the tube. You know, I'm constantly looking at some of the, the makers of the garments that you mentioned earlier. Um, and sort of the acceptance that, you know, if a celebrity is supporting it, then it should be fine. And it's, it's a very difficult, I mean, I, as, as a young person, I would, my instinct wouldn't be to fight that, right? It would be to look and aspire to be like that person.
Venetia: It takes a lot of, it takes a lot of self-control.
Dr Rupy: What I'm trying to get at is that I don't think it's just the government responsibility, I think it's our responsibility.
Venetia: 100%. It's definitely consumer responsibility. And this is something that I grapple with every day because doing what I do, I'm approached by brands on a daily basis saying, hey, we have this new sustainable X, whatever it is, we'd love you to promote it. And what I've learned through my slow fashion journey is it's not really about whether or not a fashion brand is sustainable. It's about slowing overall consumption. Because just because a brand is sustainable in inverted commas, you're still supporting consumption in some way and trends in some way. And it's something I, I grapple with every single day. Because I don't want to be part of the greenwashing because that's what I'm out to fight against. But it's so difficult. There have been times where I've definitely been part of the greenwashing. I just didn't realise it at the time.
Dr Rupy: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And you know, it's quite interesting because, um, I'm reminded of like, someone telling me about these Hindu scriptures about how, uh, narcissism and power combined is essentially materialism. And this is something that we've seen like through Vedic scriptures or, you know, ancient texts and all the rest of it, um, over and over again throughout humanity. And materialism is something that's so attractive to people. It's very, very hard to sort of distance yourself from. And what we're, what you're trying to do and what me to a very small extent, um, is make people more conscious of the fact that we are consumers and our consumption has an impact on multiple different things. And that's quite a difficult line to tread as an influencer because at the one side, you want to be, you know, promoting the bigger picture, the environment, the, um, the impact on human health and everything. On the other side, you don't want to be seen to be promoting an unhealthy mindset about everything. We've seen what happens with orthorexia, an unhealthy obsession with food. Is there going to be another term for an unhealthy obsession with clothing or an unhealthy obsession with how just living on the planet is causing some sort of detriment? Do you know what I mean? It's so, it's such a difficult thing to balance, right?
Venetia: It really, really is. I think something I should say is, I think, obviously there are lots of brands doing sustainable lines, conscious collections, and all the rest of it. And I think on the one hand, that is an effective way of, if you put your money towards those things, you're highlighting to brands that that's the way that you want things to go. However, I've also seen so many sustainable clothing haul videos on YouTube from fashion bloggers, and that defeats the whole notion of sustainable fashion. It's an absolute minefield. And I think striking the right tone is a really, really tricky thing. Because ultimately, if you wanted to be completely sustainable, you wouldn't really be breathing. If I was, if I wanted to be zero waste, I wouldn't have a phone, I wouldn't buy bananas and avocados like I do. I would never travel, I wouldn't have a car. It's, it's near impossible. You'd have to kind of live really remotely with a little vegetable patch and no Wi-Fi.
Dr Rupy: And I think at the end, we'll summarise exactly how we can be a lot more mindful about our consumption and stuff like that. But I think that's a really important point that you made about how we have the ability to change our landscape, whether that be our food landscape, whether that be our clothing landscape with where we choose to put our pounds, right? Or our dollars or whatever. Uh, it's something I wrote about in my first book about, uh, organic, seasonal, local. Um, yes, there have been some harmful impacts of pesticides on food, but choosing to buy organic where you can may have some marginal benefits to human health. I don't think it's big enough for me to promote organic as a blanket for everyone. But it shows the producers of of said, uh, um, produce that this is what you want. And actually, when you put your money where you want to see the landscape of food, that's what's going to drive down the cost ultimately. And I think the same thing with with fashion as well. If if fashion brands like the big, uh, is it Inditex? Is that the big overarching company of H&M and Zara?
Venetia: Arket.
Dr Rupy: Arket. Okay. Um, if you show them that, you know what, we are interested in ethical clothing, we are interested in upcycling, we are going to reduce our consumerism, um, and and invest more in pieces of clothing that are going to last, that's going to be the ultimate change. Uh, and it's what I'm a big advocate for. Democracy is actually in the hands of where you put your money. Um, that's, that's sort of like what I think more people need to be aware of.
Venetia: Yeah, I think you're right. I think that's the kind of inescapable fact of it, isn't it? It's the truth.
Dr Rupy: Yeah. And when it comes to the human health aspect, um, which is what I'm interested in, uh, fast fashion in particular has been associated with particular chemicals like phthalates, uh, and, um, uh, azos and a whole bunch of others that may be impactful on on our health on a number of different levels. There hasn't been a huge amount of evidence to state 100% that these are definitely harmful for human health beyond allergic reactions, but there is a pragmatism in my mind that states, you know, you probably want to be wary of where and how your clothing is produced. Have you come across anything like that? And perhaps the toxicity to the actual workers?
Venetia: For me, it's the toxicity of the dyes and inks and that kind of thing that run into our streams and our oceans and affect marine life and that kind of thing.
Dr Rupy: Like formaldehyde in particular, right?
Venetia: Yes, lots of these words I'm not familiar with, but I know you know about them, so I'll take your word for it. Um, yeah, that's kind of more of what I'm conscious of. But then how can they not be, to my mind, how can it not be harmful for our skin to wear?
Dr Rupy: Well, I mean, we use formaldehyde as a preservative for cadavers, uh, in in medicine. So, I mean, it's a pretty harmful substance. And I, I'm a big fan of sort of like dose, like how much of this particular product is at a high enough dose to cause harm? Because everything is about dose. Water, if you have too much water, it can be harmful. You have the right amount, it's fine for you, it's beneficial, I should say. For formaldehyde, there's probably a dose that's acceptable, but we're probably far exceeding that in my opinion with some of these products because there isn't that sort of mindset of this going into the environment and impacting the marine life.
Venetia: It's, it's such a, it feels such, um, it feels so, it's weird for me to talk about it and to think about it at great length because when we talk about this kind of toxicity, the toxicity side of it, I just, my, all I can think about in my mind is privilege. Privilege, privilege, privilege. That's what I, and I, I get quite panicky about it, I think. It's the same as what happened with food, right? I think when the kind of clean eating wave came, it was, it was so much about privilege and the affordability of of good produce and and I think it's the same with clothing.
Dr Rupy: I think it's the same thing that I grapple with as well. You know, the pictures that I put on Instagram of my delicious food and what we've just made here with mint and basil and peaches and stuff like that is unattainable to the large majority, I think, of people that I'm actually trying to influence. And the way I'm trying to influence is probably going to be much more impactful with culinary medicine, which is the nonprofit teaching doctors and and medical students how to cook, but also sort of the patient aspect of actually, you know, getting them to just increase their consumption of fruits and vegetables by one or two per day. I mean, that would have immeasurable impacts. And I think what you're doing to mirror that is if you change the mindset of someone whereby they reduce their consumption of fashion items by a couple of items per month, scaling that up, that's going to have a huge impact.
Venetia: And also, I think what's really wonderful to me about developing some slower fashion habits is that it is really accessible. I'm not saying go and buy Stella McCartney and Mara Hoffman. That's not your first stop. Your first stop is to actually organize your wardrobe so you see what you have in there already. That is accessible. And that's the first step. Understand what's in your wardrobe, and see how you can style your clothes in different ways to make them feel really fresh. Then go and raid your mum's wardrobe, go and raid your friend's wardrobe, host a swap shop. That stuff is accessible.
Dr Rupy: You know, I think that speaks to the power of clothing itself, right? So clothing is very, it's a very powerful tool to, um, express ourselves, to represent ourselves. I remember when I was growing up, I was obsessed with, I can't believe I'm saying this.
Venetia: I can't wait for this.
Dr Rupy: Versace. Yes. You know, I was absolutely obsessed. All my mates who are listening to this, probably not listening to this, they never listen to my stuff. But they will all attest to this. They're like, yeah, the guy was obsessed with everything Versace, the V's, I had the belts, I had like these stupid shirts. I look back and it's so cringeworthy. Oh my god. But it said a lot about my personality at the time. I was super extrovert. I, uh, enjoyed, um, the privilege of being able to sort of like purchase these items and wear them and all that kind of stuff. I don't know why I was into that particular brand. I think I was obsessed with his story and stuff and how he, you know, Italian culture. Um, but it says a lot about, and I think you could say the same thing about the upcycling, uh, sort of crowd and the, um, you know, vintage fashion and all that kind of stuff. It says a lot about who you are, what you represent. I represent environmental sustainability. It's become quite fashionable in itself.
Venetia: Definitely. And I, I love that sustainability has become a trend because on the one, I mean, on the one hand, you have to be very wary of it because you have to understand that a lot of it could be greenwashing and you just have to be super conscious of that. But on the other hand, how cool that it's trendy. How cool that, you know, it's suddenly cool to want to rifle through products in vintage and thrift shops to find something that no one else has that tells a story. To me, that's so, so cool. And the amount of satisfaction I get when I find something that I, you know, no one else has, rather than that polka dot Zara dress that everyone's wearing this summer. I get so much satisfaction from that.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah. And do you think, like, to play devil's advocate, we risk, uh, it becoming a phase and actually losing the point? Like, I've noticed a lot of people wearing like brand new t-shirts with slogans and stuff. And it's just like, this is so ironic.
Venetia: It defeats the whole, if, if you want to, if you want to make a statement with your t-shirt, just actually don't. Just don't. It's not the way to make a statement. The way to make a statement is to, is to attend some kind of rally. You know, be an activist in your actions rather than what you're saying with your t-shirt. Because so, you go on all these sustainable slogan t-shirt Instagrams or whatever, and they're all like, we ship worldwide. And it's like, I'm sorry, what? Let's think about those carbon emissions for a second. I mean, they, I get it. It's a great way to kind of get a message out there, but you'd be much better getting out a Sharpie and writing on your t-shirt, on an old t-shirt. But again, that's something that I've had to learn. I used to make statements about veganism through my clothing. I had one t-shirt that said something about kale. I had one that said vegan. I've had, Rupy, I've had so many disastrous slogan t-shirts just because I didn't know the implications of what that t-shirt meant behind the slogan itself. Um, but yeah, it's kind of crazy to me that people are cashing in so much on slogan tees.
Dr Rupy: Yeah. Well, it's refreshing for you to reflect on that, I think, because I think a lot of people would hide away from the fact that they used to do these sorts of things and actually are being very open, as you are with everything that you put out there digitally, which is pretty incredible.
Venetia: Well, some of the, some of my favourite items in my wardrobe are from ASOS, and I've had them for years. And I'm actually really keen to do some kind of YouTube video on my favourite pieces and showing that some of them are high street. And I can't escape that fact because it's all part of the journey. It's, it's about appreciating and valuing what you have. And if, even if that, whatever it is, is from Boohoo, love it and look after it.
Dr Rupy: That's the thing. I think that's a really important, because I wanted to end on that point. It's not about shunning everything that you see on the, on the high street and, you know, uh, completely just shopping from charity shops or recycling stuff that your parents had and stuff. If you are going to purchase something, make sure you love it and you look after it. One of my latest, uh, purchases, which was quite a while ago now, um, was a pair of jeans from Nudie. And the reason why I like those jeans is because they repair them for life. And so I've, like, you know, I know that when they break, as they always do, all skinny jeans break, I can take it back to them and they'll repair it for me for free. Whereas before, I would buy jeans from, I don't know, like some, some well-known brand or something.
Venetia: Topman or something.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, exactly, because they're so cheap. They're like 20 quid or whatever. And then they'll break and I'll try and get them repaired and then they just, they'll just, because the quality is just isn't there.
Venetia: Totally. Similarly for me, it's, um, it's about refills for beauty products. So I often find that package-free beauty products aren't very convenient. They go all of your, they go all over your shower. They're really difficult to travel with. However, refills are something that I'm really excited by because your product will remain in something that it can't creep out of. It will stay clean, it won't stain your shower, and you can just go along and refill it. I love, I'm really big into refills. It gives me so much satisfaction, whether that's for food, kitchen products like oils and that kind of thing, or beauty products. That for me makes a lot more sense for my lifestyle. Um, there's some really exciting things happening in so many, so many industries. It's a really exciting thing to be a part of, I must say.
Dr Rupy: Absolutely. Yeah. What are, what do you think would be the best starting point? I like, you've already mentioned one, so looking at your wardrobe, seeing what you love, seeing, you know, how to organize it, putting stuff away for winter and summer and stuff like that. Where would people, where would you want to direct people to go to? What would be a good starting place for someone who's looking to buy something but just doesn't want to have that impact on the environment?
Venetia: Wherever you can, try and find something that's already in existence. The most sustainable clothes are the ones that are already in existence. So, um, look at what you already have, then look at what your family and friends have, and then look at, um, renting. Renting is a really good way. My favourite rental website is Hurr, H-U-R-R. Um, but there are lots and lots of rental websites popping up.
Dr Rupy: Is it for men as well?
Venetia: I don't think they do men yet.
Dr Rupy: Oh, what?
Venetia: I know. But oh my gosh, you would love Vestiaire Collective.
Dr Rupy: Okay.
Venetia: Vestiaire Collective is incredible.
Dr Rupy: Okay.
Venetia: Oh my goodness. It's just loads of amazing designer pieces, lots of Versace on there.
Dr Rupy: Clearly, so like I see your face just lights up whenever you talk about fashion.
Venetia: Because I'm materialistic.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, exactly. But it's not even about material, it's like I think it's just you're, you're now bought into that sort of idea of like you can enjoy something that you genuinely love without having with the mindset of like this isn't going to have an impact on the environment. And that's something like, you know, we should, we should embrace.
Venetia: 100%. Earlier this year, just to do a comparison, earlier this year, I was really trying to be completely plastic-free, uh, in everything, including my beauty regime. And I was struggling so much and I lost all love for the products that I was using because they weren't as good as the ones that I was used to. And then one of my favourite brands, and actually lots of brands have started, they've partnered with TerraCycle. TerraCycle are an incredible company. They're ensuring that nothing goes to waste when you recycle with them. It's all gets upcycled. Um, and that alleviated so much stress for me. Now I just drop off my empties to a TerraCycle bank and I know that nothing is going to waste. And I can enjoy this, what I was used to before without the guilt. And that's exactly the same with fashion. Vestiaire Collective, you will love.
Dr Rupy: Okay, I'll check that out for sure. And then, I'm not, just for the record, I'm no longer into Versace. I'm into plain, logo-less clothes. That's the way I roll.
Venetia: Well, it could all start again.
Dr Rupy: In fact, a lot of people commented that in my first book, 2017, I wear the same t-shirts and it's super frustrating because people are like, you wore that shirt like on in page 27 of your book and you're still wearing it. Like, and it's, at first I thought it was quite embarrassing, but now I'm quite proud of it.
Venetia: Oh, absolutely. Be proud of that. Be like, #OOTD mate. I was on it. I'm all about the environment.
Dr Rupy: #OOTD. Get all the hashtags.
Venetia: Uh, yeah, so I think it's about, so back to your question, it's about, um, celebrating what you already have, swapping with your friends and family, potentially renting, and then making use of the internet. I have a Facebook group called The Slow Fashion Exchange.
Dr Rupy: The Slow Fashion Exchange.
Venetia: Would, would recommend. It's basically a great community of people who are passionate about slowing their fashion consumption. And if you have any questions about anything to do with fashion, you can just use the search bar, or if it hasn't been answered already, ask the group. And it's also a really lovely way to share articles and links and it's like one of the things that I'm most proud of and people from all around the world hosting swap shops and it's just a great community, which is what I want to use social media for.
Dr Rupy: When did you start that?
Venetia: I started that earlier this year, maybe about six, six months ago. It's brilliant. Um, yeah, it's so lovely. These girls just warm my cockles. They're so great. I mean, there are some guys on there as well, but mainly girls.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah.
Venetia: It's really lovely actually. People will just put their kind of Veja trainers up there and say, hey, I want to give these away for free and it's a really, really lovely thing. Um, so yeah, and then, and then eBay, Depop, making the, making the most out of those kind of websites. Um, it's actually fairly straightforward. I'm currently, uh, looking for my wedding dress and wedding outfit.
Dr Rupy: Congratulations again.
Venetia: Thank you. Yeah. And wedding shoes. And it's so interesting looking into that industry as a whole and trying to find my dream wedding day outfit that's potentially vintage or already in existence.
Dr Rupy: Amazing.
Venetia: But also not being too hard on myself and knowing that if I do find the dress of my dreams and it's not, you know, exactly what I wanted in terms of sustainability, then that's kind of okay too. Because you've got to, I think it's important to go easy on ourselves.
Dr Rupy: Absolutely. Yeah. Because it's, like we were saying earlier, I think, you know, it can get into that sort of, um, it can feed into that mindset of like, if you're not doing this a certain way, then you're a bad person. Um, and I think, you know, I think it's quite refreshing again, just to point this out that you are mindful of this and the fact that you are taking responsibility as an influencer to to make sure people are aware that it doesn't have to be one way or the other, even though that's your sort of your, your way yourself. It's not necessarily the same for everyone else.
Venetia: Yeah, definitely. That's what I'm striving for, at least.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah. I'll definitely link that to the show. I'm sure a lot of people will be interested in that.
Venetia: Oh yeah, please do. Please do.
Dr Rupy: Thank you. If there's anything else that people would want in terms of like where to start, where else would you point them?
Venetia: For fashion specifically? Or for, um, um, um, um, um, well, I do, yeah, I love the Facebook group is great. I also love the rental website that I mentioned, Hurr. Um, and then start a swap shop, do a swap shop with your friends, create something in your community. I, I think social media is fantastic if used to create experiences with real people in real life. And I'm a big fan of swap shops because it means that you get to meet people and talk to people and share stories with people whilst supporting the circular economy and not buying new.
Dr Rupy: Absolutely. I think, you know, um, talking about on the topic of like, you know, privilege, I think it's very easy to knock ourselves down from that position of privilege, even though it's pretty striking that that can be the case. But, um, uh, Made in Hackney is a, is a charity that I, I work quite closely with and I'm an ambassador for. I absolutely love them. Um, they really are the pinnacle in my mind about how you can strike a balance between being mindful of those who are from a low socioeconomic area and don't have as much, uh, in the way of opportunity and how you can make it affordable and accessible to them as well. So they, uh, if you don't already know, uh, you know, promote local growing, growers, they show people where they can buy organic food super cheap, super, cheaper than you can find it in the supermarket, and how to grow, how to, uh, prepare food as well. And I think they'd be super interested in the kind of stuff you're doing as well.
Venetia: I recently volunteered with them.
Dr Rupy: Epic.
Venetia: They are so amazing. Sarah is the coolest chick in the game. I love her.
Dr Rupy: Her TED talk is amazing.
Venetia: I've never seen her TED talk.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, her TED talk's awesome. You should watch it.
Venetia: I need to get her on the podcast actually.
Dr Rupy: It's basically called, um, why the world needs more community kitchens. It's brilliant.
Venetia: Wow. So good.
Dr Rupy: I love what they do.
Venetia: Yeah, there, there is definitely a way to do business ethically.
Dr Rupy: Absolutely.
Venetia: And actually that's been a really interesting part of my work is, is learning about these businesses and, and I mean, I personally would find, I think, a little bit too stressful to have my own business because it seems like the hardest work in the world, but I love to be able to learn about them and communicate them to my audience.
Dr Rupy: I think we should watch this space because I think there's a business brewing inside of you. I think it's those who least expect to run a business that will run a business.
Venetia: Maybe, maybe. Time will tell.
Dr Rupy: Lastly, I've noticed on social media that you've been doing a digital detox.
Venetia: Yes.
Dr Rupy: Offline 48.
Venetia: Yes. Offline 48. Um, the Instagram, the Instagram handle is @48hourschallenge because offline 48 was already taken. So I, over Christmas in 2018, my boyfriend and I, or fiancé and I, I can't use that word without putting on a weird, weird voice. We decided to take, um, a digital detox. I've done them in the past where I just deleted my social media apps, but this time we decided to properly turn off our phones. We meant to do it for three days, but we enjoyed it so much that we ended up doing it for four days, five days, and that eventually led to 10 days. Now, we both do social media as part of our work. So I understand that we're coming at this from a slightly different perspective. But those 10 days were so glorious to kind of reconnect back to a time before mobile phones were a thing. People are kind of can be very astounded when they hear that I take these digital detoxes when I turn my phone off completely. But really, that's just how we used to live. That's how I grew up. I didn't have a mobile phone until I was about 14 years old. So I still have a rough recollection of this time. So we went offline for 10 days, absolutely loved it, and then begrudgingly went back online and kind of forgot that those healthy habits that we developed. I mean, we're still pretty good generally in the weekdays. Like my phone, shouldn't say like, my dad would kill me. I turn my phone off every evening at about 8:00 or 9:00 and it doesn't come on in the morning until I've been awake for a few hours. I go to sleep with a Lumi alarm clock rather than my phone alarm. I have these habits, but I'm still on my phone a lot because of my work. And then I just started to feel like I'd formed bad habits again. And as an anxiety sufferer, social media isn't that great for people who have mental health issues. Um, and I was talking to my mum and we'd just done another, we'd just done a weekend digital detox without sharing it on social media. And I was talking to my mum about it and I was like, I just had the best weekend offline. I really want to continue doing this, but I don't think I can because of work. And my mum just said, darling, make it part of your content. I was like, mum, you are so woke for someone in their 60s. It's crazy. And so we did it a few more weekends and then thought, okay, let's start sharing this online. And we've been doing it now, turning our phones off every Friday and not turning them on again until Monday morning for about five or six months. And we have created this Instagram account, which I know is ironic because it kind of goes against what we're saying, but it's a way to encourage people to turn their phones off even if it's just for a couple of hours whenever they can, because my whole thing is conscious consumption. It's not just about fashion, it's not just about food, it's about everything. And unfortunately, phones require a lot of energy. They're really, really damaging for the planet, really. And also tech waste is, um, actually one of the biggest waste issues at the moment. Um, that's another story, another story. But in order to be more mindful of my consumption, turning my phone off every weekend just makes more sense. It means I can reconnect to myself, it means I can reconnect to what's going on around me, to the people around me. And it means I can actually be more productive in the week when I am working. Yes, it might mean that my Instagram doesn't grow as quickly as it potentially could be, but frankly, I don't care. That's not why I'm here. I'm not here to gain more Instagram followers. Yes, I'm here to gain more momentum to get my message out there, but also I need to look after myself. If I'm not looking after myself and my mental health and connecting with real life, then what's this all for?
Dr Rupy: I, I, and you know, something that we were chatting about before the pod, I think a lot of people in a position where they have influence feel that at one point it was something enjoyable to do and to watch something grow, but at some point there's a tipping point. And it's not like based on the number of followers, it's not based on the amount of time you spend on social media. I think there's just a threshold for everyone where it becomes more of a chore and more of a, too much of a responsibility to do. And, um, I've had that issue, I think, for a while. And the offline stuff that I've been doing, consciously putting my phone away, consciously taking time away from this thing that actually is, uh, has been proven to have, so to impact your mental well-being. Um, has been pretty groundbreaking for me. Um, and so I, I actually think having a handle offline 48 or what was it, sorry?
Venetia: Yeah, offline 48.
Dr Rupy: Or 48 hour challenge. Even if I was to flick past that, you know, it would remind me, you know what, I've been in this Instagram or Facebook hole for 30 minutes. I have no idea where that, that time just zapped away. And I think this is probably something for a further discussion another time, but that realisation, I think, is pretty, pretty important and very profound. And I think we're getting more and more used to it. If there was one website I'd advise people to go and check out, it would be, um, uh, the Center for Humane Design. Um, it's, uh, the Center for Humane Technology. So it's a bunch of breakaway designers from Facebook and Google who, the guy who invented the like button at Facebook. Um, they've realised just how impactful their technology has been on terms of, uh, human attention and how that can have a detrimental impact. So there is a way to leverage technology, um, to provide its benefits and actually to progress human culture, um, without the disadvantages of it as well. And I think, you know, the fact that we've connected via Instagram and actually via my sister, but it's probably a hybrid there. But, um, but that, that's testament to how beneficial digital technology can be.
Venetia: Absolutely. There's so much to be gained from it, but I think we just have to use it responsibly and that's what offline 48 is about for me. It's about proving that we can use social media, we've just got to be mindful of how, how much we use it.
Dr Rupy: I love chatting to Venetia about the subject. To summarise what we were talking about, conscious fashion is just being a lot more aware of when we choose to purchase things. So whether you choose to buy fast fashion items or not, it's not for anyone to decide, but please do make a conscious decision in the knowledge that whatever you consume is going to have some sort of impact. And if you choose to buy something, then enjoy it, just cherish it as much as you can. There are lots of websites to shop with peace of mind, and we'll link to those at thedoctorskitchen.com. Venetia selected a whole bunch and we talked about them on the pod as well. Check out charity shops and hiring clothes websites, which allows you to indulge in the hobby of fashion, something I still enjoy myself, with the peace of mind of it not being as detrimental to the environment. And recognising the role of the consumer in this and being aware of greenwashing is probably one of the best things that we can do. Our purchasing power is phenomenally important, and I think it's something that we as a collective can have a lot more influence on. Stay connected with Venetia on YouTube where she creates weekly videos and on Instagram for her daily insights and advice for living a more mindful lifestyle. You can check her out on Instagram, Twitter, under Venetia Faulkner, all one word. Check out her podcast, YouTube, and the website, and I'll link to those on thedoctorskitchen.com. Check out the other interesting reads and listens that I've linked to in the podcast, including the Radio 4 debate, Moral Maze, that actually led to this podcast being created in the first place. I hope you enjoyed it. Give it a five-star rating, subscribe to the newsletter, you'll get weekly science-based recipes sent to your inbox, and I'll see you next time.
