Dr Rupy: You can tell how excited I was to have Donna Hay visit our studio this week. I've been an avid fan for years and we were privileged to have her grace our kitchen to record not only a podcast but also a recipe for our YouTube channel. Make sure you do go check that out. Donna Hay doesn't really need much of an introduction. She's an Australian favourite. She's one of the most trusted home cooks globally, a household name, an international food publishing phenomena. She's got 29 books, that's not a typo, 29 books that have sold more than 7 million copies worldwide. They've been translated into 10 different languages and her TV cooking shows have brought her signature style to life for viewers in more than 14 countries. And when I say signature style, her styling is absolutely iconic. It's inspired myself as well as many budding home cooks I'm sure around the world. Her latest book, Even More Basics to Brilliance, is a collection of classics that people can always rely on, those dependable, delicious recipes that we all want in our bag of tricks and is a follow on from the previous book, Basics to Brilliance. Today we are talking about how she thinks about healthy ingredients, ingredients in general, and injects flavour into them. I also want to know what Donna Hay's store cupboard and pantry ingredients she always has, what are her go-tos, how she thinks about recipe creating and what food styling can do to create anticipation around a meal. I was also interested in her own health hacks and how she keeps healthy, particularly when she's travelling. I mean she's over in London at the moment doing a big tour to promote the latest book. And I also wanted to know a bit about her business empire and how she maintains that clarity of brand presence, the identity, despite the wealth of touch points from books, cookware, magazines and TV shows. That's something that we are thinking a lot about at the Doctor's Kitchen as we grow, not only the team but also the touch points in terms of whether we're going to do cafes, whether we're going to do food ingredients, whether we're going to do more than just the app recipes and actually create a whole ecosystem around healthy eating with the Doctor's Kitchen ethos. So, super interested in that. And remember, you can watch the podcast on YouTube. There's a link if you're listening to this on any of your podcast players. YouTube is where you can see Donna's beaming smile and the wonderful studio setup that we have at the moment. If you want to support the Doctor's Kitchen, one of the easiest ways that is no cost is to subscribe to our YouTube channel. Just click on the subscribe and then hit the notification bell. That really does help us out a lot. And you can also download the Doctor's Kitchen app for free to get access to all of our recipes with specific suggestions tailored to your health needs. And we are really excited about over the next couple of months, we're going to be adding even more features. And yes, Android users, you will eventually get access to the app very, very soon. And you can also follow along on our newsletter. Every single week we send you seasonal Sundays, we send you recipes, we send you interesting bits of information that I'm learning about, I'm listening to, I'm reading. And if you want to keep along on our journey as we learn more and more about nutritional medicine, our newsletter is the easiest way to keep on top of that as well. For now, this is my wonderful conversation with the iconic Donna Hay.
Dr Rupy: Donna, thank you so much for coming into the studio today. It's a pleasure to have you. I've been such a big fan of your books, your styling, everything about you. I absolutely love. And as someone who used to live in Australia, I know very well how much of a big deal you are over there and internationally. I want to talk to you about how you inject flavour into healthy ingredients. We have a focus on nutrition, nutritional medicine, and you know, I'm a big believer that for something to stick and for people to eat consistently well, they need to enjoy their food. So when you think about healthier ingredients, how do you think about injecting more flavour into those?
Donna Hay: I think of it from a few different ways. And I'm a big fan of what you do and I think it comes from my childhood where I was the child that had the enormous multigrain salad sandwich. I'm kind of old, so you know, it was, I was the outlier. My mum was so ahead of her time. On the top of our fridge was a three-tiered alfalfa sprouter. So it looked, you know, whenever I'd bring my friends home from school, I'd be trying to hide, you know, like, mum, hide all this stuff. She was always culturing her own yogurt on the countertop and so she was really, you know, you can imagine as a teenager, I hated it. But I did often go to school with a big multigrain, like she'd have to go out of her way to buy multigrain bread and I'd have this big grated carrot, fresh beetroot, alfalfa sprout sandwich, soggy in my lunchbox. Horrid. So I kind of came from, you know, that sort of background. But it was really bland cooking. And I have two older sisters and they sort of begged me to cook because my mum was so healthy that we were eating what tasted like cardboard. You know, like this horrible wholemeal macaroni back in the day. You know, like there wasn't, she couldn't even buy tasty ingredients, I don't think. So she did grow a lot in her garden and and good on, you know, like she did give me a great grounding of what, you know, healthy food should be. But I think it kind of, I understood from quite an early age about fresh produce and also that food is, you know, is what fuels you. So having no idea if I've answered your question, I think that the benefit that I bring to my recipes is I'm quite science focused. So and I think if you're going to write a balanced recipe, if you're not going to retest it a million times, you've always got to fall back on your science. So I guess when this kind of all this kind of health thing started and people started replacing just coconut sugar or coconut oil, just, you know, randomly in and out, I think that might have turned people against a bit of healthy eating because it's not that simple. And it did kind of go towards my mother's cardboard cooking. You know, like, oh, it's a cookie, but I'm not enjoying it. I'm eating it because it's healthy or what's the motivation? So I kind of, I kind of went through that phase of going, okay, let's not just sub in healthier ingredients. Let's work really hard on changing this white flour into a portion of buckwheat flour, but then maybe some wholemeal spelt that's a bit lighter. So it was always trying to balance, not going ahead of my time, but taking people on that journey.
Dr Rupy: I remember that sort of because your career has obviously spanned the different sort of health phases over the last couple of years. And I remember this sort of trend towards just replacing like an oil with coconut oil or like a sugar with agave or whatever and just calling it healthier without A, an appreciation for the science of how those ingredients come together, but also the sort of cultural heritage of a dish. Like you can't use coconut oil in a pasta. Like it just doesn't work. And I remember seeing this.
Donna Hay: And do you really want that really fatty film on the top of you? Like bad.
Dr Rupy: So I mean, you know, I kind of balance, I feel like I dance both sides of the floor. I really want people to cook. And I think that's the gateway to for people to understanding. So I have, I'm kind of torn between my heritage with my mum of healthy cooking, but then the greater kind of, hey, cooking's easy, come with me, and then I'll take you a little bit further if I can. But I, you know, I love doing my kids' shows and my kids' books and sneaking healthy things in there. That I think was the most rewarding thing I did. And working with kids who are so honest and so fantastic was such a great experience for me. But that's really, you know, I try and capture people wherever I can.
Dr Rupy: You you you got two, um, young adults now, haven't you in in the family? Are they, talking of honesty, are they pretty honest about like your cooking and stuff? Do they sort of give you honest reviews? Do they push back against?
Donna Hay: Oh yeah, they're boys. Oh my goodness, they're terrible. I mean, one of them's really adventurous and and is really quite healthy. And the other one, I don't know where I went wrong. I'm hoping he'll slide back in, but his diet is terrible and it kills me. I have to bite my tongue all the time because we really come to loggerheads about it. Really badly.
Dr Rupy: That's interesting, isn't it? Because you know what your loved one should be eating, but navigating that difficult conversation is sometimes really hard, particularly as a as a as a mother.
Donna Hay: Yeah, and he really does shut me down really quickly, which snaps our communication for the night because he gets angry at me. So I'm hoping I can bring him back around. I'm hoping it's just a phase he's going and he's quite the hustler at the moment.
Dr Rupy: Healthy ingredients. So what are sort of your go-to ingredients that you always have in your pantry or always have in your kitchen? Like what are some of Donna Hay's health, healthy ingredient favourites?
Donna Hay: Well, let's keep going with my boys because I'm, as their mother, I feel like I can trick them with no excuse. So because they're always hungry and they're quite active and like the hustler, the 21 year old, quite the entrepreneur. And then my other son studies agriculture, so he's out in his, anyway, they're busy. So I try and I always have in the kitchen really big muffins, but I find that that's my way to sneak things into their diet that I want them to have. So they're a base of banana, buckwheat flour, any type of sugar I've got from coconut to raw sugar. They're boys, they're going to, the banana takes most of the sweetness, but then I go heavy on chia seeds, almond meal, walnuts, flaxseed meal. Like they are jammed with everything I can get in them. And then even just flaxseed oil or whatever I've got just to bind them together, a whole bag of frozen raspberries. Yeah. So when I see them snacking on those, I feel like a more responsible parent.
Dr Rupy: Amazing. I mean, just like thinking about all the different benefits of those different ingredients, the chia with your omega-3 that's plant-based and you've got the flax and then all those other sort of high-fiber ingredients that are going to support their gut health. And you're right, they're pretty active, so they're going to burn off that sugar, whatever form it's going to be in, whether it's white sugar or cane sugar. I guess that sort of cane sugar or like the sort of less refined ones give a like an earthy tone that goes quite nicely with banana.
Donna Hay: Yeah. I do put five bananas in as the base. To get the sweetness, but also, you know, the potassium, everything else that I know goes in there. So yeah, I find that just having all of those things to hand that I can sneak in when I'm cooking for them.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we've got those banana muffins. What else is always in your in your kitchen or your your fridge?
Donna Hay: Um, well, to feed boys that they're quite easy, like they kind of starving now. And so I find I have that five-minute window of like, let's get them fed and get them out of the way before they're out the door and going somewhere else. So I find that I can feed them really quickly with omelettes, which I can hide baby spinach in and rocket and some smoked trout or whatever I've got in the fridge. So I find an omelette is one of those baseline things that I can play with and and actually add a lot of things to, whether it's a bit of shredded kale or, you know, as I said, some wilted baby spinach and then some feta even in it. But I find that the the omelette is my trick to feeding them quickly before they disappear again.
Dr Rupy: This is great because I think for for a lot of people, they feel that like healthy eating has to be some wondrously complicated meal that has all this consideration. But actually, when you learn the basics, you know how to just inject different ingredients like spinach or feta, which has all those different benefits, more wholesome and much better than you're going to get like from outside, whether it's, I don't know, Maccas or whatever.
Donna Hay: Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, that's the thing. I try and balance out what they do when I'm not looking.
Dr Rupy: I guess we've got a muffin and omelette. I love that. Anything else that that you sort of always have up your sleeve whenever you're trying to cook something, whether it's in a rush or whether you're entertaining?
Donna Hay: Um, I just try and have lots of fresh herbs. I find that that just brings a vibrancy, just like lemons, whether you're using the rind or the juice. I find that, you know, when you start with fresh, you kind of can't go wrong. You can then, you know, you can just do a really simple pasta or so I try and have lots of fresh herbs on hand. If my vegetable crisper is not full, I do sort of get a bit anxious. I don't know what, I just like, oh my, there's nothing in the fridge. And then my partner says to me, the fridge is almost full. I'm like, look at the vegetable crisper. There's not even a bunch of kale here. So I do sort of cook at home with start with fresh and then just add to it. So whether I'm just doing a quick quinoa bowl or or something.
Dr Rupy: And you've been on your own health journey. I think this is how I started like 15 years ago when I was a junior doctor. I had my own heart condition and doing a deep dive into the nutrition literature and everything else. I sort of realized like, okay, food can be medicine, food has medicinal effects. It's not just for for flavour, it can be for function as well. Have you been on your own health journey and have you picked up things along along your sort of um your adventures through through food?
Donna Hay: Yeah, I think when you see people around you that maybe are unwell or you just want to um run as fast as you can, you know, you love your job and and you want to get everything out of life and and you're trying to find that balance. Um for me it's really important. And I've always been inquisitive about um pharmaceuticals. Like why, why are people given a pill? And what's the science? What is the reason behind that? Like how did I get unwell? Not just take a pill and I'll see you in six months. So I really love um like visiting integrative doctors and and kind of weaving that into my life. Um because, you know, when you run fast, you want to stay, you want to keep up. So, um for me, it was it was more about um you know, my dad had dementia and and just being really inquisitive of, well, how, was there a role within his diet that played in that? Was how do we stay well? I'm not happy about just being prescribed a pill for anything. Um it's my least preferred way of treatment. I think I'm a GP's nightmare. Because I'm the one that sits there going, but why? And what else can I do to support this? And like you, I think that food plays a really big role in that. Um yeah, I probably would want to hang out with you for months and months and months and understand more about your, you know, your your your educational background in this that we could really get something going.
Dr Rupy: Totally. Yeah. I mean, like, I think for a lot of general practitioners who are time poor, you would probably represent a a bit of a thorn because it's like, I I just want to give you this pill and then send you on your way. But I actually think as a GP myself, and I think for a new generation of GPs out there, we are welcoming that um inquisitiveness from patients like yourself, because when you understand the why and the foundations for what enables people to thrive and how they thrive, and that sort of foundational wellness, you'll be a better person, you'll be a better patient and you'll be healthier such that we don't need to necessarily prescribe you pills that have a, you know, wonderful effect and they're very, very important. And I think this sort of culture of nutritional medicine, lifestyle medicine, and mental health medicine and sleep medicine, you know, these are things that if we educate more people around it, you know, we'll lessen our reliance on on on pills.
Donna Hay: Yeah, it's um, yeah, there's so much, I feel like there's so much work to do. And I know just speaking from Australia, you know, there's been a lot of chat about um the nutritional updates that GPs need to be offered because they're still learning um a course that hasn't had an upgrade in many, many years. So I really feel for them that they're they're just maybe a little bit in the dark as well and so busy. So busy.
Dr Rupy: Totally, yeah. The the I so I in America they have culinary medicine, which is a a relatively new course that's sort of going through the medical curricula. Over here in the UK, we started a a nonprofit, again, culinary medicine, teaching medical students how to cook. And there are a few really prominent GPs who are sort of banging the drum in Australia, which is great to see, but it's not permeated through the sort of like older generations of GPs for at this point. But it's definitely getting there. And I think the the tipping point for a lot of people is actually when they either get ill themselves, like in my in in my case, or they're like their loved ones or close, close family members get ill, because then you start questioning in the same way a patient questions as well. I don't want to be on that pill because I know that leads to the second one and then an intervention and then surgery and then all of a sudden, you know, I'm I'm dealing with all the side effects of everything, you know? It's uh it's a really interesting sort of um phase in our in our journey as we get closer to some of those old school remedies that I used to think were just, you know, fluff.
Donna Hay: You probably got a lot of that from your from your mother as well, right? From from
Dr Rupy: Yeah, she wasn't one to hand out pills ever. She was like, oh, you're getting a scratchy throat here. I'll make you some ginger, lemon tea. And I'd be like, what? I want the store-bought sweet lolly that you, you know, like as a child, that's what you wanted. But she was like, oh no, no, no, here, let me brew you this. Yeah, it was a different upbringing that I really didn't appreciate at the time, but um yeah, I think
Dr Rupy: There's a real parallel with that because with my mother as well, because I mean, I come from an Indian household and my mom got ill when I was younger and she sort of like treated herself and used a lot of Ayurvedic traditions and things that I thought were just completely wacky. But actually, you know, you dive into the research around simple things like chai or cinnamon or turmeric and you're like, wow, this is there's actually quite a lot of research out there. So all the kind of things that mom was using to get better actually have a lot of scientific value now these days. And it's yeah, it's interesting. I see those sort of parallels with people who are interested in integrative medicine. Um I certainly had the sort of idea that it was a bit woo woo and un-evidence based, but actually, I think it's coming back into fashion.
Donna Hay: Yeah, it's fascinating, isn't it? I just, yeah. I'm so excited by it. I I try and read as much as I can, which is why I'm always watching what you're up to and a few other integrative doctors and things and just trying to work my way through it because there's so much information to sift through um and then to integrate it into recipes that people want to eat, that they don't, you know, there's that culture out there, oh, if it's healthy, it mustn't taste that great. So
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah. And I think like, you know, going back to your your books, you've done like 29 now, I think. This is your 29th book. This is that's incredible. Um I think a a real key missing piece to this is the fact that people don't have the basic knowledge of cooking, even to today, you know? And I think that's what's so wonderful about your books. I mean, even more uh basics and and the previous book prior to that, are teaching people the, you know, how to layer flavors. And whether you want to use healthier ingredients or less healthy ingredients, it's up to you. But getting those basics is is key, right?
Donna Hay: Yeah. I mean, the, I mean, you've only got to have a look at the delivery bikes, especially where I live. You know, and that's the most alarming thing when I drive home, the amount of delivery bikes on the street. Yeah. Um that I just think, wow, I understand everyone's time poor. I get it. I really get it. But um, yeah, I think that's why I turned back to the basics because I was just could see, I was like, okay, that we need to, I need to keep championing this. You know, cooking is is an essential part of keeping yourself well. Processed food is not the way. A quick omelette is quicker than delivery bike. A soggy something. Don't know where the ingredients have come from.
Dr Rupy: In terms of um how you keep healthy. I mean, you've got a repertoire of of recipes, you know how to use ingredients and all that kind of stuff. What what are the other sort of um more lifestyle health hacks that you've dived into, you you've sort of leaned into?
Donna Hay: I'm a, I was a big runner, but I need to have a knee operation. Okay. Which has really affected my mental health. Um you know, like um running is just that ultimate for me. Um I can sift through my entire day, my thoughts, my my the noise in my head is calm and quiet and it's my processing and I've used that for years and years and years. So to not be running is a little, a little bit odd for me. And I didn't realize how much I relied on it and it was quite frightening when I couldn't run. So I started power walking, but it's not the same. So I'm just waiting to have a little break so I can probably this Christmas will be my Christmas present. Let's just have a little bit of keyhole surgery on your knee as a runner. But I've started to do some more strength things. I'm really focused strength things like Pilates. I have a reformer at home because I like to exercise, I don't like the judgment of a gym. If I want to get on my Pilates machine at 11 o'clock at night, I just will. It pin sharp focuses me because of the discipline of the exercise, which really works for my head. So I love that and it's the first time I've added that real disciplined strength, um kind of power into my exercise routine. Um but I'm a big walker. I live near the ocean at home, which is fantastic. Um and we just have a thing in my house, especially with my partner, well, let's just go walk it out. So even in winter, which is not, let's face it, it's not that severe in Sydney. I'll still put on a puffer coat and we'll go out at 9 o'clock, even if it's just for a 15, 20 minute walk. Just got to release the day. And it might not be work, it might be the kids, whatever it is. I just think that that that kind of, no one's ever felt bad after coming back from a walk or getting up early. I don't know any one of my friends who has regretted getting out of bed early. So, um yeah, I mean, luckily enough in Sydney we have the weather for it, but I just love nothing more than getting up in the dark and watching and seeing the sunrise, whether I'm walking or running or whatever I'm doing. For me, and I I have the biggest joke with my friends. Um we laugh at each other because we we text each other win the morning, win the day. But it's such a, we are so like taking the Mickey out of each other, but it's like, we actually want to get caps made with it on the back here under my ponytail. Win the morning, win the day, because it's a real upmanship kind of phrase, which is kind of like the anti of what we're using it for. Like I'm so much better than you, Rupy. I won the morning, I won the day. You know, like so we just laugh about it. So we're forever sending each other um sunrise pictures with winning the morning.
Dr Rupy: I love it. That's so good. I've got a great image now of you like on the beach as the sun comes up just texting away. There's something in that though. Like I'm a I'm a big early riser and I think I learned that when I was living in Sydney as well. And the whole walk thing, I don't know whether that's a Sydney side of thing, but my wife who's Australian and your biggest fan, she's not meant to be in the studio. She came especially because you were coming in today. She never comes here. Um but uh she always drags me for a walk, you know, just phones away, laptops down, middle of the day, whenever it is, just sort of to get some air. And you're right, you never regret a walk, you know, when you come back, you're just like in a much better head space. And I guess, you know, you have a sprawling empire, not just your books, but you've got so many other sort of touch points where people can experience Donna Hay the brand. How do you manage that sort of brand identity, ensuring that, you know, everything is consistent with everything you do? Because when I look at a Donna Hay recipe in one of your beautiful books, I know instantly that's a that's a Donna Hay recipe, you know? How how do you deal with sort of the fact that you're in so many different, you know, households, how many people, so many people's lives? How how do you how do you sort of manage that sort of um that that brand identity?
Donna Hay: Um I think it that I'm lucky it comes naturally to me now, the consistency. I think I was much more highly strung when I was younger building the brand and I worried a lot more about the consistency and that maybe the sky would fall in if everything wasn't perfect. Total perfectionist, OCD, like I've got it all. Imposter, like let's just pile it all in here. Um but I think, you know, when you the the the wisdom that you get of getting older, you learn to just let go of tiny things. And as you let go of more tiny things, I guess they become bigger things. Um but I've been doing it for so long. I guess that I have a great um understanding of what I want to achieve and um what the things I need to let go of. Um which is not many. I guess I'm just a little bit more comfortable in my skin. Um and I've got guys that have been with me for so many years that I think that they they beat the drum just as well as I do.
Dr Rupy: How is this might seem like a bit of a left field question, but how do you deal with fame? How how does that how do you wrestle with that? Because you're so well known.
Donna Hay: Um this is hard to describe, but I don't see myself day-to-day as being any sort of famous. So if people stop me in the supermarket or grab my arm, I must look like a total freak. Because for me, I'm just doing the shopping or with my kids or I actually don't have that part. I never wanted to be, I just love doing my job. So I jump back like someone's about to steal my bag and I look like a freak. Because I just don't have that. I don't go, oh, I'm so famous. Like for me it's not. It's for me it's like I've got a very distinguished brand, a very, you know, particular look and um I love doing my job, but I definitely, I go to work like everyone else. Like I see myself as just another working person. So whenever anyone stops me, I must look like a freak. Because I jump back and go, and then I go into this weird PR mode where I go, oh yes, hi. Because I just it doesn't, I don't know. I didn't start off going, okay, how am I going to become famous? I came, I just came to it loving food and playing in food. Even as a child, whipping egg whites and sugar and making these huge bowls of crazy cloud-like meringues. I just thought it was scientifically miraculous, you know, how much fun was that? So I just, yeah, the fame thing, I'm not, I'm not about at like I just comes with the job, but I forget about it a lot. I'm I'm more focused on what, you know, what project we're working on next and how am I going to make it better and you know, how do we get more people to cooking and how can I make it simpler and how can I make it healthier without turning people off and Yeah.
Dr Rupy: I love that. And you mentioned imposter syndrome a little bit earlier. I think a lot of people listening to this or watching this might be like, how how could you have imposter syndrome? You're amazing, you know, this very distinguished stylist and and recipe uh creator. When do you feel that you shook off the imposter syndrome cloak or is it still something that
Donna Hay: It still creeps in.
Dr Rupy: Interesting.
Donna Hay: Yeah, I did, um like even when I used to go and speak at a, you know, wherever I'd be in front of the public, um luckily, I had some smart people around me and I would be so nervous and I'd be worried about saying the wrong thing or just why am I here and the whole imposter syndrome. And then one of the girls that worked with me, she said to me once, you know we haven't tied every one of these people to the chair today. You know they've come here of their own free will to see you. So there was little things that happened that I just kind of was like, okay, okay, they're not here because they've been tied to the chair. So let's, what can I tell them that they won't find on Google? What can I, what are the things that I want to get out of this today? So I think I channeled my kind of awkwardness into what I wanted to deliver and what I could do and my perfectionism. I kind of dropped my nerves for wanting to deliver a more perfect message and more a succinct, you know what I mean? I flipped it on its head. Wanted to do a better job than just sit there being nervous.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think, look, there's some pearls of wisdom there and I I I wish we had a bit more time to really dive into some of the other topics. Um and I I I just want to say thanks for coming to the studio, talking, talking about the cookbooks. We're going to do a little bit of cooking in a second. Um but if there was, if there was sort of like one thing that you could leave our audience with, it could be anything. It doesn't necessarily need to be about cooking or nutrition. It could be anything that sort of you've gleaned over the course of your career or your family life that could really help our listeners in terms of a health hack or something that you feel has really helped you put in, put yourself into flow state or just helped you to be a healthier, happier person at work or whatever that might be. What do you what do you think that that might be? I think a walk is definitely something that I've taken from this that I'm definitely going to be doing a lot more often.
Donna Hay: Um I think as a working mum, I did have a big shift in my career where I stopped hiding needing to leave work for my boys to turn up to an athletics carnival or, you know, I was, I was kind of brought up through that system that you didn't do that, that you, that you power through. Yeah, you power through and you needed to either hide that or and so I went through this big shift where most of my staff were female and I just one day thought, hang on a second, what kind of boss am I hiding that I really, really want to go to my boy's swimming carnival or that they're sick and I actually want to be home with them today. And so I just one day just stopped. I just stopped and I started putting in my diary, swimming carnival, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I stopped, um making excuses for being a mum. I I'm still get exactly the same amount of work done. I stopped beating myself up about trying to juggle it and I just did it. And I just, I just did. And I knew the work would get done and I just kind of parked that whole panic of, oh my goodness, I I maybe I won't look like I'm doing my job if I sneak out to the athletics carnival or how can I hide that as a meeting in my diary? I stopped doing it because I realized that what sort of example was I setting for all the younger girls in my office was pretty bad. Pretty bad. And so I just stopped.
Dr Rupy: Amazing. I mean, as we sort of grow our little mini empire over here, I think I've gleaned a lot of pearls of knowledge from you because certainly, I'm sort of responsible for a culture that we have in in our space here, a culture across the whole company as we grow. And we have a a mixture of of different people working and I think setting an example, I'm a classic sort of workaholic, you know, seven days a week up till 10:00 p.m. just, you know, when you're starting out on your own, you know all about that. Um but in reality, if I'm setting an example of what I feel is a good place to work, I need to make sure that I'm practicing also what I'm preaching. And so I've definitely taken that on board for sure. I'm I'm going to, I'll let you know how I get on with it.
Donna Hay: It's so hard in the beginning. I'm not going to hold you to it. Just do your best.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, I'll try. I'll try for sure. But look, this has been wonderful and um hopefully I'll get to see you in Sydney at some point. I'm coming over there in a couple of months, so I'll definitely be pinging you.
Donna Hay: Oh, we'll be going for a walk.
Dr Rupy: Oh, definitely. Definitely. I wonder if I can get one of those caps.
