Dr Steve Lin: 40,000 kids in the UK have tooth decay and they have to go under to have teeth ripped out. It's quite tragic.
Dr Rupy: Welcome to the Doctor's Kitchen podcast with me Dr Rupy, where we're discussing the most important topics and concepts in the medicinal qualities of food and lifestyle. And today, we're actually going to be talking about eating for your teeth. Now, a lot of people don't recognise the importance of nutrition when it comes to our nashers, but eating for your teeth is something that Dr Steve Lin, a good friend of mine from Sydney, has been talking about for a number of years. Dr Steve Lin is a practicing dentist in Australia. He's a firm believer in the concept of ancestral dentistry, and he's author of The Dental Diet, which is available in all good bookstores. We have a conversation about the impact of nutrition on airway development in children, as well as why certain types of vitamins are important from the perspective of healthy teeth and gums. Our conversation spans a whole bunch of different topics, including the microbiome, vitamin K and, of course, sugar. Don't forget, you can also pre-order my book, The Doctor's Kitchen: Eat to Beat Illness on Amazon and all good bookstores. You're going to love this episode. Steve, it's been a while.
Dr Steve Lin: Hey Rupy, it's good to talk to you, man. Yeah, it has been a while.
Dr Rupy: You've been busy.
Dr Steve Lin: Yeah.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, I've been busy. You've been busy with the book. You got a, you got a baby.
Dr Steve Lin: Yeah, four month old, man. Life has changed so much. It's been great, but wow, what a life change. It's all, 2018's been pretty hectic.
Dr Rupy: I can imagine. Yeah, I can imagine. So for the listeners, I've done a little intro already, but Steve is a good friend of mine, dentist, based in Sydney now. You're back in Sydney. Last time I spoke to you, you were actually going to be, or thinking about moving to America, right?
Dr Steve Lin: Yeah, exactly. Life took a big change. I was, my book came out in America and I was living in, doing some work in New York and LA, training practitioners. And but now we've got a young family and my clinic is here just north of Sydney in Australia. Yeah, so it's, we're heading into summer now and yeah, really looking forward to it.
Dr Rupy: Oh dude, I'm so jealous to hear that you're going into summer. It's like in the depths, we're just about to start a proper winter over here. So, yeah, you're definitely not missing London right now. But I thought we'd dive straight into it because you were one of the first people that actually heightened my interest into how dentistry, dental health is really the first warning sign of poor health. And you were really one of the few dentists, if I might say, who has been shouting about this for a while and trying to get people to understand the link between our teeth and our well-being. Do you want to just give us a little bit of an insight into how you got into this yourself as a conventionally trained dentist?
Dr Steve Lin: Yeah, so I was practicing dentistry early in my career and really the day-to-day life of a dentist is fixing problems. And I began to think, really, can I do this for the rest of my life? I had very sick people and children coming into my clinic and I didn't really have the answers for why they were experiencing the problems they did. And so I took some time off dentistry and I actually traveled the world. I was in a traveler's hostel in Istanbul, Turkey, and I came across a book called Nutrition and Physical Degeneration. It was actually on a shared reading shelf. And I kind of picked it up and I thought, what is this? I've just gone through seven years of professional training and I'd never heard of it, so it must have been discounted. I opened it up and it was this story of this dentist who went around the world with the idea that the modern diet has caused all of the dental problems we see today. And that includes crooked teeth or malocclusion. And that was a real eye opener for me, but I kind of put it down and, you know, and put it back in my bag and discounted it for some time. But when I went back to the clinic, I found those kind of things nagging at me. I went back to the book and I a year or so later and I realised there was something to it and there was a whole scientific explanation for what this guy was saying, Weston A. Price. And all that time I spent kind of putting those pieces back together and realising that crooked teeth and malocclusion is a nutritional problem. We can functionally fix it in the dental practice and that parents really should be spotting that early and that there are a lot of problems that play out as a result if we don't look at it in that way.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, because this is something that I think has never been more prevalent ever in the history of our civilization. I came across a few statistics just a couple of weeks ago, actually. I was at a dental charity event and there's 40,000 children in the UK per year that will have to go under a general anaesthetic purely because they have to have their teeth extracted because of gum disease. I mean, that is pretty astounding given the degree of health and sanitation we should be achieving in the modern world.
Dr Steve Lin: Absolutely. And that number in the in the UK is one of the highest in the world, probably because you guys have the NHS and the system is a bit tipped towards general anaesthetic. But yeah, 40,000 kids in the UK have tooth decay and they have to go under to have teeth ripped out. It's quite tragic. And you know, yeah.
Dr Rupy: It's amazing. Yeah, it's absolutely amazing. And it's not just tooth decay, is it? Because I know from your book, which is fantastic, you know, you talk about the development of the airways and the palate and speech impediments and breathing, these sorts of things.
Dr Steve Lin: Yeah, absolutely. So those kids' teeth and what I've, what has been such a big journey is understanding that there's a whole mode of practice out there that understands that the teeth and the jaw are a craniofacial system. And so that when we have straight teeth, it shows that our airways have developed, the upper and lower jaw grow as they should. And when they're crooked, it shows that we have a growth problem and that there's the craniofacial system isn't developing like it should. You can spot these signs very, very early, right from newborn. And so now we have this whole functional model where we watch a kid grow and develop and untie the functional issues that hold their breathing, their tongue posture, and it really stops their jaws growing forward. And if we spot these things early, you can prevent a lot of problems.
Dr Rupy: So how early are we talking with these sorts of children that you're seeing in clinic?
Dr Steve Lin: So the by law in Brazil, every child should be checked for a tongue tie as a newborn. And this is a test that goes on in, you know, in, it does happen in the Western world, but every kid should be checked for a lip and tongue tie because the issue is that when we don't have that connection between the tongue and the palate, it stops the growth of the or slows down the growth of the maxilla. And so we get a high palate. If you look into your roof and you see like a V-shaped and not a U-shaped flat arch, it means you've got a high palate. And that what that does is it deforms the maxilla bone. And so you by definition, you have lower airway volume in your nasal sinuses. And so the tongue guides this growth to help us one, hold the oropharyngeal airways open, but also breathe through the nose, which is what we're designed to do, which delivers oxygen efficiently throughout the body. And also when you sleep to do the same thing so that we're delivering oxygen to our brain and letting our brain go into deep levels of sleep because this is the problem that we have is when we don't breathe well through the day, we don't breathe well at night. And we're now walking into an epidemic of sleep disorders, including kids. And I think when you look at it and some of the literature shows that when the craniofacial development issue is at the core problem of it.
Dr Rupy: That's absolutely fascinating because I know like breathing and meditation has become very fashionable these days, but it is really the substance of life and what we need to actually pay more attention to. I know on a personal level, like I find myself mouth breathing quite a bit during the day. And I actually notice that it's kind of correlated with my stress levels. When I sit down and I relax and I actually do some nasal breathing work consciously, like for five minutes at the start of the day or the end of the day, you know, I feel a lot more refreshed. I feel a lot more clearer and calmer in my mind. And it's interesting to state that, you know, there are some correlation with how that affects brain development in children.
Dr Steve Lin: Absolutely. And what you're talking about there is very important because on the spectrum, so if we think about sleeping, everyone knows the classic snorer, right? You know, the kind of overweight dad who's, you don't want to sleep in on the same end of the house as him because he's like shaking the walls. And that's kind of a funny thing. But the thing about sleep apnoea is we have the literature now that links it to heart attacks, Alzheimer's disease, dementia. And it really is a chronic disease of breathing. And so when we don't breathe right in the day, we don't breathe right at night. And we go through this degeneration process where the brain stem doesn't actually control the blood pressure. It doesn't control how we breathe at night. And so that's really we know what is what happens in the process of sleep apnoea. But people experience that on on a much lesser scale. And a lot of research came out from Stanford in the 90s that showed that people with upper airway resistance syndrome, which is often associated with mouth breathing or people that had orthodontics, they do experience these problems without having sleep apnoea. So if you, for instance, grind your teeth or you mouth breathe in the day, that feeling, I think, of a bit of anxiety is probably some sort of breathing issue. And it's very, very common. We see people have issues with, for instance, digestive problems, anxiety, depression, cold hands and feet. And it all fits into this functional somatic profile. And the core issue is they're not getting deep sleep from breathing.
Dr Rupy: That's incredible. Yeah. And I should to note that I'll put all the show notes, all the papers that we're talking about in the show notes on the doctorskitchen.com so you can actually reference back to some of the papers that we're discussing here. You mentioned the forefather of ancestral dentistry, I think, as he's known, Weston A. Price. The guy or the whose body of work inspired you to at least start thinking about nutrition in your practice. Are there any sort of correlations that he's made or observations that he's made about the type of diet and the quality of diet that he saw with tribes that he went and visited around the world and how that affected the dental structure?
Dr Steve Lin: Yeah, that was a big kind of first step, like for me into this whole area of how nutrition is so important for dental health. And what Price was talking about was I was observing is very different to what we see as healthy eating today. And what he was saying is that every traditional culture that he went to, he went to 14 different cultures around the world, and he looked at how their traditional foods and meals were made up. And he showed that they were really around these treasured set of nutrients. And that the nutrients were vitamin A, vitamin D, and vitamin K2. And that there are only a small set of foods that you get them from. And so and that every culture treasured these nutrients. They come from organ meats, they come from grass-raised dairy, they come from egg yolks. They are animal derivatives by nature because the fat-soluble vitamins come in their active form from animal foods. So you can't get them except for one type of vitamin K2 from bacterially derived ferments. And so every culture made sure that they had these. And I noticed, you know, we've basically stripped them out of our diet, the idea of low fat and all of this, the way we look at the, you know, the classic food pyramid really strips and doesn't consider these nutrients at all. You know, vitamin K2, Price actually wrote it in his book as activator X, but for 60 to 70 years, we didn't know what that was. After he died, he never found out what activator X was. And he said, well, each of these cultures, they eat vitamin A, vitamin D, and activator X. And it wasn't until 2007 that a physiologist, a biochemist from Brooklyn University, uncovered that it was vitamin K2. And that now we've got the physiology to show that K2 is a fat-soluble that carries calcium into bones and teeth, out of soft tissues. You know, the research showed that when we have vitamin D and calcium supplements, we don't increase bone density, but we do increase risk of heart attacks. That was 2011. And K2 is a missing piece that when you don't have K2, so anyone taking vitamin D supplements, you should always take K2 with it because K2 helps carry that calcium that vitamin D absorbs into your bones and teeth and out of your soft tissues.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, so I only came across some of this research the last couple of years, but vitamin K2 is heavily involved in calcium recycling in the body. And it's it's very hard to get from the diet apart from the Japanese fermented natto, which I don't know if you've tried, have you tried that?
Dr Steve Lin: Yeah, it's pretty nasty natto. So they describe it as dirty baby nappies. I've heard gym socks, but it's funny because when I when I visited Japan, I came across some natto and I was asking a local about it. And they were saying, you know, this is just something that we have been told and instructed by the elders to eat and therefore we eat it every single day. It's kind of like, you know, the castor oil or the the sort of broths that you don't really like, but you're just forced because it's, you know, medicine or it's, you know, good for you or whatever. But it's quite interesting that we haven't really had that in other cultures apart from the organ meats that like you said, have come out of fashion. It's kind of coming back into fashion now. I've noticed a lot of chefs using offal, liver, pates, that kind of stuff, those kind of gamy style meats.
Dr Steve Lin: Yeah, absolutely. And if you look at every traditional culture has their dish with organ meats. You know, even even the if you look at the the idea of the Mediterranean diet, if you go through Italy, they've they've got lamb offal, they've got, you know, kind of whole pig. The organ meats are there in all the dishes. It's just we don't, you know, we've stripped it out. People kind of turn their face up to it. But there's a good reason. There's a reason why your grandmother was making you eat liver. You know, she had good intentions and we've got to get back to that because K2, yeah, it's rich in ferments. So natto is a fermented soy. That's there's two types of K2. So the fermented bacterial derived one is called a menaquinone-7. And the menaquinone-4 are from the animal derivatives. So that's your organ meats, egg yolks, grass-raised butter and ghee and all the whole fat dairies. But what we know in somewhat detail now is that menaquinone-4 and menaquinone-7 are used differently in the body. So we seem to use menaquinone-4 very, very quickly. So we have a high demand for it. And then menaquinone-7 actually gets stored to the liver and gets converted. So vitamin K1, this bacterially derived K2 gets converted to that menaquinone-4, which is the most active form. And that's the same as all the other fat-soluble vitamins. They need to be in that active animal form for our body to use them. So we have some sort of hierarchy there that and we need to make sure that we're getting them.
Dr Rupy: And I'm sure in addition to the luxury items, these sort of prized organ meats, the traditional societies would have been eating tons of plants, right?
Dr Steve Lin: Absolutely, absolutely. And and this is this is exactly what Price showed, you know, they have, besides, the only people that didn't were the Eskimos and they really only grazed on kind of, you know, seaweeds because there weren't a lot of plants in just from the general environment. It just wouldn't survive in in Yeah, but they did kind of like seasonal and it's all seasonal, it's all, you know, colourful and, you know, and naturally from their their organic environment. And it's really the basis of the way because the one good thing about dental nutrition is that it's so simple in the mouth is that the fat-soluble vitamins, they feed, you know, the nutrients, the immune system of the teeth and bones and bone growth factors. But then the protection factor, which is the microbiome, really is how you eat, you know, and feed with fibre and this diverse population of microbes that live in the mouth and gut.
Dr Rupy: Absolutely. Yeah. So the the human microbiota, which is the population of microbes living in and around your body, largely in your gut, this has been absolutely phenomenal for dental health, right? So this is something you actually talk about in your book and how important it is and how to nurture this population.
Dr Steve Lin: Yeah, and and so if you think about what we've been doing to our oral microbiome, you know, we've really been thinking we disinfect it and scrub it and using mouthwash, for instance. There was a study last year that showed that people that use an alcoholic mouthwash every day can increase their risk of pre-diabetes. Oh, wow. And so that's a real interesting connection between, you know, how the mouth directly contributes to a less or more diverse gut microbiome. And we know that a less diverse gut microbiome links to type two diabetes. And that's really the oral systemic connection playing out is that when you reduce the diversity of the mouth, you reduce the diversity of the gut and you increase your risk of chronic disease. And so, yeah, these connections, you're swallowing thousands of bacteria every day, every second, every second. You every little bit of saliva has thousands of bacteria. So there's a constant communication going on. And so the idea that we're just disinfecting the mouth is very, very limited. And we really should be thinking about how we're feeding this diverse environment. We've the studies show that when you look at anthropological studies of dental plaque, we've decreased our oral microbiome. And it's all about understanding how to get back that diversity. And as as you said before, Rupy, you know, traditional cultures ate a wide variety of organically sourced plants, you know, lots of different types of fibres that we probably don't even know all the different categories of fibre. You know, it feeds lots of different microbes that live within the mouth and body.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, absolutely. And I think what's important to note is that even if we can't get access to the same sort of wild plant varieties that they would have had access to in tribal communities or far ends of the world, there's so many different accessible ways that we can actually do that here in the UK and and across other cities as well. But just looking at the varieties, looking at colours and getting lots of different types of fibres into your diet. At the moment, Jerusalem artichokes are in season. And I know those are absolutely fantastic from a gut point of view.
Dr Steve Lin: Oh, absolutely. All the prebiotic fibres. Yeah, that's that's stuff that feeds the bacteria that protect you against tooth decay, gum disease, and then healthy gut down the track.
Dr Rupy: Yeah. And and so you've also got an interest in vitamin D and how that impacts bone health, but specifically for the dentition as well, right?
Dr Steve Lin: Yeah, well, you know, vitamin D, that was one of the big first steps that I realised that there was a lot of research collaborating what Price was saying. So he spoke about vitamin D back in the 30s when he wrote nutrition and physical degeneration. But so what has happened is that we've kind of gone down this road and it really wasn't until 2000 that we understood vitamin D is the sunshine vitamin, that your body converts it from all that lovely UK sun that you guys get. But we didn't understand that. And so vitamin D, we then all the research came out to show that well, it's more like a hormone in the body and there are thousands of receptors on your DNA waiting for vitamin D. And so that's very critical. And basically what we have today is we're I think we're in chronic vitamin D deficiency and there's a lot of literature out there to show that the levels and the as soon as you come off the traditional diets, they had a study in Russia in 2014 where tribes came off their traditional diets onto the modern and they checked their vitamin D levels and they drop. And that's exactly what Price was talking about. And we know the connection to osteoporosis and bone density. The link between vitamin D and tooth decay is strong too. So if there was a campaign in the UK this year talking about how kids' tooth decay rates have jumped up again this year and the hospital rates have jumped up even this year in 2018. Well, there was no discussion of vitamin D and I was really disappointed in that because, you know, we talk about brushing, you know, we talk about, you know, good oral hygiene and but really, if I think it's one of the more effective ways that we could put, you know, prevention-based public policy and if we understood that kids need adequate levels of vitamin D.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, absolutely. And when it comes to oral hygiene and brushing and stuff, I know the Dental Wellness Trust have done some fantastic work in South Africa where they've seen demonstrable impacts by just the impact of improving kids and their ability and their knowledge about brushing and the fact that they have to do it twice a day. What are your thoughts on oral hygiene and the types of materials that we should be using?
Dr Steve Lin: Yeah, it's a tool. So oral hygiene, you know, it's like, you know, you take the car to the car wash, right? You got to get that, you got to keep it looking shiny. With that kind of that kind of it's important. And so, you know, if you go and see your dental practitioner every six months, get a dental clean, cleaning yourself is important. So I floss once a day, a natural based toothpaste, removing plaque, floss, that's really, you know, it's what you do it twice a day and it does keep your your oral health in check. But really the food is what what provides it with the raw nutrients and the protection of of disease long term.
Dr Rupy: There's a lot of talk about fats these days and sugar and obviously we've gone out of the the low fat sort of era and going into the anti-sugar era. But what I'm seeing is a rise of healthy sugars or unrefined sugars. And in a lot of cases, you're getting these energy balls and you're getting bars and stuff which are packed full of dates and maple syrup and stuff. And there are some healthier versions of sugar, I appreciate that. But what's your, is there any research looking at the impact of these unrefined sugars and dental health or they can they just be as, can they be as harmful from a dental point of view?
Dr Steve Lin: Yeah, they can be as harmful. It's a really great point because there is a perception out there that if you have a natural sugar that it's significantly different and there is probably somewhat a difference because they come packaged in in a natural form, but they still cause, you know, the the oral disease in terms of they feed the disease causing bacteria in the mouth that then can increase the risk of tooth decay. So that's a big one. Yeah, that and so we're seeing that pop up a bit that they say, oh, they don't have any sugar and when you look at the packages, when you look at the, it's like, well, there's a bit of sugar in here and this is still sugar that can cause tooth decay, right?
Dr Rupy: It's one of those things that I think instead of like masking our palates with things that are just as sweet, but perhaps from a more unrefined source, what I try and encourage people to move toward are appreciating those bitter notes in the dark green leafy vegetables, in the colourful veg, and the other sorts of less sweet fruit because what we really want to do is redefine our palates and actually retrain our taste buds to appreciate the bitterness that we would have had. But because we've had so many hits of this sugary stuff, it just becomes something that we've become acclimatized to. And I'm sure in the dental profession, it's something that you're trying to, you know, teach and retrain people about, right?
Dr Steve Lin: Oh, I love how you put that bitter notes. I'm thinking about dark chocolate. Yeah. Yeah, but I think you're exactly right because, you know, like what's happening there is that those tastes are feeding the bacteria that really protect you. So for example, in there's studies that show certain lactobacillus species in certain dairies can protect you against tooth decay. So you have this population of bacteria that are waiting for these kind of foods. And what that probably is is feeding this kind of fibre that you perceive as a bitter taste. Obviously, we have taste buds, but there's something bacterial that's happening there too, and you're feeding those that colony of microbes that then create that diversity that keep everything balanced. So it I think that's a great point is that once we put sweet into the factory, it just feeds those fast metabolizing simple carbohydrate consuming bacteria that then take the diversity of the oral microbiome and gut microbiome away.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, simple advice really goes really far, I think. And I think it's quite important for people to understand that it's not just about obesity or heart health, even though there's a very important subject, you when you try and improve your internal environment using food, using lifestyle, using all the different dietary factors that we've talked about, you're actually improving your overall health and that includes mental health, endocrine health, but also your teeth as well. And this is what I was so fascinated to hear about the development of the oral microbiome, but also the jaw and the structure of your airways and how that actually leads to far-reaching effects beyond just good-looking teeth and dentition. It's actually the access of oxygen to your brain and speech development and your general well-being.
Dr Steve Lin: Yeah, it's been such a like the the road to understanding because, you know, as a dentist, you kind of feel the mouth's important and people know teeth are important, but you know, we really kind of, I think had a bit of a conversation that's missed how impactful teeth can be for your health. And just understanding your mouth as the mode for your rest of the body to be healthy has been one of, you know, the most transformative, you know, discoveries of my career. And it really, I see it every day in patients, you know, like when they understand that their oral disease, their breathing, their sleep, their oral microbiome and their gut bleeding gums is how it connects to the gut. It becomes so simple and it's, you know, it the weight comes off their shoulders and there really is an opportunity there to solve complex problems, you know, that can affect your livelihood, you know, just by understanding your teeth.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, absolutely. And I think once we once we move people towards that understanding, then the understanding is beyond, you know, just good-looking teeth or just the aesthetic. In fact, like, so I work in A&E a lot these days and I see a lot of patients who unfortunately come in with painful teeth. They clearly need to see a dentist and there's not really much we can do because, you know, my my straight away line is, well, I'm not a dentist. I'm really sorry, but you've got to see an emergency dentist out of hours and they have to pay because we don't cover that on the NHS. But I always ask them about diet now, actually, because I mean, I ask generally everyone about diet, but I tend to ask them about diet and actually give them those that little like five, 10 second line, that one liner about, yes, sugar, yes, poor eating and convenience habits, but just how improving your diet can actually improve your overall health and reduce the need for unnecessary interventions like removing your teeth when, you know, you haven't even hit your 30s and you're getting teeth removed. It's a really poor sign.
Dr Steve Lin: Yeah, it's concerning and it's interesting, you know, the the medical and dental profession have been so disconnected and, you know, you're really experiencing that, you know, where you say, oh, you got to go see a dentist. You know, it's pretty crazy that we've not seen, you know, and had more collaboration between, you know, dentists and medical practitioners. In society, we separate it. So, you know, it's a different system that deals with it and it doesn't work that way as such. And so when we start to marry that up and, you know, you guys have the NHS, which is excellent because you have a lot more access to, you know, to medical and dental services. But the the kind of disconnect there does become a problem when we think the mouth is a different part of the body.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, absolutely, man. And I think you're doing great work, you know, heightening people's awareness of it. What's new in terms of your your clinic and in Sydney and what you have for the future?
Dr Steve Lin: Yeah, well, so I'm I'm actually doing a bit of reading and writing in human history at the moment, which is I'm really enjoying. But yes, so my my clinic, I love the the the history side of things and and the anthropology. So I've been looking at that. Our clinic is doing full functional dentistry. So we're helping kids grow and develop and we're seeing amazing results growing craniofacial systems and helping kids with sleep disorders, helping adults with sleep disorders and and reprogramming this craniofacial system to function properly. So, yeah, anyone in Australia or this side can look us up at Luminous Dentistry. Yeah, we're it's it's exciting. We're enjoying looking forward to some time off over Christmas and, you know, 2019 is going to be exciting.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, especially with the new four-month-old, right? So you've probably got your hands tied at the moment.
Dr Steve Lin: He's really, yeah, he's keeping us busy. That's another thing, Rupy, is that you'll never, no one can ever describe to you how how involved raising your a newborn child is. Wow, what a that's been a huge learning, learning period for me as well. And it's it's been great. I'm loving it, but yeah, it's a it's a whole life change.
Dr Rupy: It's a whole life change. Yeah. Well, hopefully I'll be coming out to Australia at some point next year and we can meet up in person and perhaps have a few more conversations about this kind of stuff. But, yeah, no, it's been it's been awesome chatting to you again and hopefully it won't be so long till the next time I see you.
Dr Steve Lin: Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'll be in the new the UK next year too, man. So I'm looking forward to it. You're doing great work. Looking forward to your next book. It's really exciting.
Dr Rupy: Appreciate it, brother. All right, I'll chat to you soon.
Dr Steve Lin: All right, man. Speak soon, Rupy.
Dr Rupy: So I really hope you enjoyed that episode. Dr. Stephen Lin has actually taught me a lot about the intersection of nutrition, lifestyle and dentistry. You can get his book, The Dental Diet from all good bookstores and check him out at drstevenlin.com. Make sure you get a copy of my book. You can pre-order now, Eat to Beat Illness is available on Amazon and in all good bookstores. And make sure you give a five-star rating to this podcast if you enjoy the information. See you next time.
